Wa-pedia Home > Japan Forum & Europe Forum

View Poll Results: How should Japanese deal with foreigners ?

Voters
145. You may not vote on this poll
  • They should assume that they can't understand Japanese and use gestures

    4 2.76%
  • They should first ask them whether they can speak Japanese (either in Japanese or in English)

    92 63.45%
  • They should address them in Japanese and only use gestures or speak more slowly if the person doesn't understand

    49 33.79%
Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 202

Thread: Should all Japanese directly address foreigners in Japanese ?

  1. #26
    Regular Member quiet sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 22, 2005
    Location
    Wuxi
    Age
    42
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Even in central Tokyo, when going to my local dry cleaner or bento-ya, the women there (over 50) always use sign languages with me, eventough I have been going there regularily for over 3 years. When I come in, they act as if they had never seen me before and look all confused. At the bento-ya I might say with a confident air "honjitsu no makunouchi bento kudasai" (making it longer than what the Japanese usually say on purpose). My pronuciation cannot be bad, as they never ask me to repeat (except if they are visibly too nervous to notice that I'd said something). But when asked to pay, they show either write teh price down on a piece of paper or show it on the cashier's stand - rather than even saying it once before in Japanese. Everytime I say "ahh yon hyaku kyuju en desu ka ? shosho omachi kudasai (check in my wallet), hai, yon hyaku kyuju en desu." to show them that I prefer being told in Japanese. No matter if I go there 4 times in a month, sometimes with my wife with whom I speak Japanese expressedly to show them I am fluent, but these dumb women keep writing the price down on a piece of paper and showing it to me with their finger without a word. This happens even more frequently once we go to the countryside. Now I try to avoid these "blacklisted" shops, even if I have to go more far away to find another where that doesn't happen.
    Ha, now I'm curious too! Why they discarded the easiest way--talking with you, since you can speak Japanese fluently? Did you ever ask them directly why they don't want to talk with you in Japanese?
    Last edited by quiet sunshine; Feb 20, 2005 at 15:04.

  2. #27
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    Using gestures can be very self-humiliating for the Japanese (is it true? this also needs to be verified) ; but they do it anyway for the benefit of the foreigner who is the guest, who deserves, in the mind of each individual Japanese person, the greatest respect.
    I don't buy that. See my reply about the dry cleaning and bento-ya above. Why would they insist on not speaking to me, when they know I can speak and understand Japanese ?

    I think the real reason is that the Japanese are uncomfortable with the idea that foreigners can learn their language so quickly, while they were taught (by "the group") that Japanese was so unique, difficult and superior, and that only the superiorly intelligent Japanese race could master such the language of the kami. They might not know it consciously, but deep inside them it is what motivates them to act as described in this whole thread.

    The Japanese only realised that their system, culture and language was not superior to others after the burst of the Bubble in 1990. They only slowly start realising that their education system sucks, that they are mostly unique for not being able to learn foreign languages as well as people in Europe, India or (to their utter embarassment) in neighbouring Korea. There is now a new national complex of Japan as a (relative) failure. Politicians are only more corrupted than in Japan in third-world countries, the economy has been going down for 15 years (which developed country can boast half as much ?) and the vast majority of the Japanese are so completely ignorant of the rest of the world that they would still think that Japan is unique for having 4 seasons or sending New Year greeting cards ( ).

    Visit Japan for free with Wa-pedia
    See what's new on the forum ?
    Eupedia : Europe Guide & Genetics
    Maciamo & Eupedia on Twitter

    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  3. #28
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by Duo
    I'd further like to note that, here in belgium, the people don't ask foreginner lookin people whether they speak or not, for example the lady at the supermarket treats everyone the same, you dont see belgians going up to asians and asking them if they speak the language or not, and brussels is a city of 30% foreingers and bilingual. I always get people coming up to me asking me stuff in flemish, a launguage that I don't know, and even here that lanuage is such an undecided factor i haven't noticed people asking me if i spoke french or flemish before talkin to me. They assume I do. So I thi nk in Japan it should be the same.
    Maybe you should explain to our non-European members that Brussels is a city where both French and Dutch are official languages, and to make things more confusing it is in the Dutch-speaking area of the country but 80% of the people speak French, and there is no way to know who speaks which (anyway most locals are bilingual French-Dutch and usually also speak English or another language). But even in remote, non-touristical villages of Belgium, the woman at the supermarket will not ask an Asian if they speak the language.

  4. #29
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by quiet sunshine
    Did you ever asked them directly why they don't want to talk with you in Japanese?
    No, and it's not an easy thing to ask. I could also just tell them that they should speak Japanese as I understand, but it seems so obvious... I asked my wife, and she doesn't know why this happens. She just says "well you are a foreigner, so they don't expect you to speak Japanese." If even her, who has lived abraod and with whom I usually only speak Japanese, says that, I think it's jut too ingrained in the Japanese mindset to change.

  5. #30
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by quiet sunshine
    What's foreigner's proportion in Japan? And what's foreigner's proportion in western countries? Among those foreigners, how much is the proportion of people who can fluently speak the language of the coutry he stays?
    There are about 2 million registered foreigners (i.e. residents) in Japan, most of whom are Japan-born Korean and Chinese and speak so well Japanese that the Japanese couldn't tell they are not Japanese (because they don't look foreign). There are only about 120,000 Western residents in Japan (0,1% of the population), but most of them can speak at least some Japanese. Those who can't are mostly tourists, and stay in touristical areas (you know around temples, Tokyo tower, shops in Ginza and Shibuya, etc.).

    The Japanese think that Koreans and Chinese living in Japan also can't speak Japanese !

    The other day I saw a TV programme about the Korean community in Japan. Those Koreans have lived all or most of their lives in Japan, and speak perfect Japanese. But when the Japanese TV interviewer came with the camera into the Korean shop in Tokyo, the first thing they said upon hearing "konnichiwa" from the Korean shopowner, was "oooh, nihongo jouzu desu ne !" (or you Japanese is so good). Not something one should say to a permanent resident who may have been born and raised in Japan. This certainly proves that the Japanese think that any foreigners (not just Westerners) are unable to learn their "unique and difficult" language. It's very offensive, and that's just daily occurence on Japanese TV.

    Westerners coming to Japan usually learn Japanese

    Keep in mind that most Westerners living in Japan or just visiting are people interested in Japan (the only exception being the expats sent there by their company, or business people on short visits and usually staying in expensive hotels and having little contact with the locals, or US soldiers, which I didn't count in the 120,000 Western residents). Japan is far from Western countries, it's an expensive place to travel, and the only worthwhile beaches are limited to Okinawa (not really Japan). What's more, most Japanese products can be purchased at similar price in Western countries, so shopping is not even a reason to come to Japan (except for some "otaku" maybe).

    So Westerners usually come here for the culture (traditional or modern) or for the people (including boy/girlfriend), which both require them to learn the language. Therefore, no matter whether they are tourists or residents, most Westerners should at least speak some Japanese (depending on how long they have been there and their individual language skills).
    Last edited by Maciamo; Feb 20, 2005 at 13:18.

  6. #31
    Five times to Japan. ArmandV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 18, 2004
    Location
    Tarzana, California
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecash
    Have you ever considered that the people who have it happen to them often enough and over a long enough period of time for it to begin to irritate them aren't short-term tourists here?
    Yes, and it really shouldn't make any difference. Whether or not a person is a short-termer or long-termer in Japan, the fact is that he/she is still really a guest in their country and one has to expect things like this. To me, it is silly to get bent out of shape and let it irritate them.

    I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese. I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).

    Maybe people should suck it up and grin and bear it? (Just playing devil's advocate here, folks.)

  7. #32
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandV
    I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese. I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).
    You really seem to get it all the wrong way round ! The problem is that the Japanese tend too make too much fuss when dealing with foreigners (gestures + "sorry no speak english" when we talk to them in Japanese) instead of just talking normally as we Japanese(-looking) customers.

    Another annoying thing we haven't mentioned yet is that when a Western-looking and a Japanese-looking person person are together, the Japanese you are talking to will always automatically turn toward the Japanese-looking person. If I am with my wife, no matter if I ask information about trains, ask for a receipt at the restaurant, check-in at the airport, or buy tickets at the cinema, the Japanese staff always answer my question back to my wife, just ignoring me. That is very irritating when one wants to practice one's Japanese.

    But to show how stupid this Japanese mania really is, let me take these two cases. When I am with a Korean friend of mine, no matter whether we pay the bill at the restaurant or ask information in a department store, the Japanese always turn to my friend, who doesn't speak better Japanese than me (and actually asked me to ask the staff for this reason). But I also have a Canadian friend of Chinese origin, who doesn't speak much Japanese. Whenever we go somewhere in Tokyo, the Japanese always turn to him, while I am the one addressing them, because they think he is Japanese, while I am visibly not. I just hate the way Japanese are so disrespectful not to even answer to the person who is talking to them and avoiding them on purpose just because they don't "look" Japanese. Is there any more disrespectful nation on earth in this regard ?

  8. #33
    Hi Keiichi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 9, 2003
    Posts
    44
    Wow, this is an interesting point of view of the matter. Especially since I probably can never relate to the situation (since I look Japanese).
    So generally, it all comes down to looks, and whether it looks like you can speak Japanese, or not...

    Keiichi

    K1

  9. #34
    Five times to Japan. ArmandV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 18, 2004
    Location
    Tarzana, California
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    You really seem to get it all the wrong way round !
    Huh? This sentence does not make sense. Are you always this way to someone who has a different point of view?


    I just hate the way Japanese are so disrespectful not to even answer to the person who is talking to them and avoiding them on purpose just because they don't "look" Japanese. Is there any more disrespectful nation on earth in this regard ?
    Okay, since you put it that way, I can see your annoyance.
    Last edited by ArmandV; Feb 20, 2005 at 15:24.

  10. #35
    Banned Mike Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 15, 2002
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    291
    And you can see how 5, 10, 20+ years of it can get a little old.

  11. #36
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 3, 2004
    Age
    49
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Another annoying thing we haven't mentioned yet is that when a Western-looking and a Japanese-looking person person are together, the Japanese you are talking to will always automatically turn toward the Japanese-looking person. If I am with my wife, no matter if I ask information about trains, ask for a receipt at the restaurant, check-in at the airport, or buy tickets at the cinema, the Japanese staff always answer my question back to my wife, just ignoring me. That is very irritating when one wants to practice one's Japanese.
    I've been reading this thread and holding back my response until now...I originally thought that you were blowing this out of proportion, but now I am unsure. I can say that I haven't had the same problems that you describe. On the contrary, I find that people are more willing to speak to me (the man) vice my wife. (and I will acknowledge that my Japanese is probably at a much lower level than yours!)

    I will comment on one thing that you mentioned. Japanese responding to you in English instead of Japanese....maybe they want to practice as well?? Many of my friends will do this to me...which results in me speaking Japanese and them speaking English (which can make a very confusing conversation!) Also, sometimes I find myself interupting my wife's friends on the phone when they are searching for words in English, I cut them off in Japanese answering their question before it is even asked. Just another example of people wanting to practice on each other.

    As for the dry cleaners and bento shop...maybe by using longer sentences (as you mentioned that you do sometimes) you are actually confusing them more? Some of these people are not the most educated themselves and would feel more comfortable using slang or shorter statements? (just a thought)

    I only lived in Ibaragi for a short period, but I did not run in to the same problems as you and I was living in the countryside, so please understand that I am only commenting on my own experiences...I can not honestly comment on what you are experiencing since I am not there

  12. #37
    JREF Resident Alien Pachipro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 19, 2005
    Location
    Goodlettsville, Tennessee
    Age
    64
    Posts
    129
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Duo
    From what I can make of these threads, I think the question should be changed into should the japanese stop assuming that foreigners are stupid ? ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    Well, you obviously hit it on the nail for the accuser, so to speak. But at the same time it sounds a little unfair for the accused somehow.

    What makes me say this is the importance I put on member Hiroyuki Nagashima's vote for the first poll option. From his many posts that I have read with keen interest, I find nothing but respect for any foreigner on this forum; actually even more than that. This to me is a cultural characteristic of Japan: to go out of one's way by using jestures for the sole purpose of preventing any embarassment on the foreigner's part.
    Very well said lexico. I also find it very interesting that members Hiroyuki Nagashima and Yellow Emperor both selected Option 1 in their answers. I can't speak for Yellow Emperor, but we know that Mr. Nagashima is a Japanese whose English is not perfect, but uses translation software to offer his advise on these boards. I commend him on his efforts. However it would be nice to have his input on this topic as he selected a choice that most fluent residents abhor and sparked debate on this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    I've never had a shopkeeper ask if I speak English, either out of a lack of confidence in their ability to carry a conversation or because it really isn't necessary for the business at hand.

    To smooth the encounter along, I usually take it on myself to make a point of speaking Japanese first which is generally sufficient for making the transaction work and finding what I came for. There has never really been an issue of not being remembered or of the clerk/owner insisting on practicing their English.
    I have always had the same experience. I always walk into a place with confidence and speak Japanese first. If I can't find what I'm looking for I always ask and am treated with the same courtesy and respect accorded any Japanese customer. Maybe the Japanese sense this by my demeanor. I don't know.
    Do What You Love And You'll Never Work Another Day In Your Life!


  13. #38
    JREF Resident Alien Pachipro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 19, 2005
    Location
    Goodlettsville, Tennessee
    Age
    64
    Posts
    129

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Another annoying thing we haven't mentioned yet is that when a Western-looking and a Japanese-looking person person are together, the Japanese you are talking to will always automatically turn toward the Japanese-looking person. If I am with my wife, no matter if I ask information about trains, ask for a receipt at the restaurant, check-in at the airport, or buy tickets at the cinema, the Japanese staff always answer my question back to my wife, just ignoring me. That is very irritating when one wants to practice one's Japanese.
    This is true as the same thing occassionally happens when I am out with my Japanese wife or Japanese friends. They will usually address them instead of me when it is I who am speaking in Japanese. My wife and I like to have fun with this aspect of the culture and have overcome this dilemma in two ways.

    1. When they address her instead of me when it is I who am speaking, she will turn to them and say in forceful Japanese (unusual for a woman) something like, "Why are you asking me? Is his Japanese not good enough to understand? Did you not hear him? Please don't be disrespectful to my husband!"

    They will usually be quite taken aback at this and become embarrassed. They will usually bow and apologize and start addressing me.

    2. This one can be alot of fun. If they address her while ignoring me, my wife will start speaking English which will throw them for a loop! I will then say to the person, in Japanese, that my wife is not Japanese, but was born in America and cannot speak Japanese. You can just imagine the look of confusion and embarrassment on their faces when a foreigner is speaking Japanese and the Japanese-looking person is speaking English. From that moment on, especially in a restaurant, it is I who they will address.

    We usually decide before going out or into a place what situation we will use before hand so we will both be prepared to act it out. Maybe you and your wife should try these scenarios.

    Maybe your wife could say something similar to number 1 above while adding "He's been here 4 times this month and you still can't underestand him? Is his Japanese that bad or do you always discriminate against foreigners who can speak Japanese?" or "Is something wrong with your hearing? Can you not see that my husband is speaking Japanese?" Or something to that effect. I don't know what will work for you, but we have alot of fun and laughs with it rather than get irate over this aspect of their culture.

    This may not be unique to Japan, but may be an aspect of Asian culture in general, I don't know. As an example, some time ago my wife and I went out to a Korean restaurant here in the states for some great Korean barbeque. The waitress being Korean started addressing my wife in Korean. When my wife began speaking English, she apologized and began addressing me. So even here, in the states, they addressed the Asian looking person assuming she was Korean while ignoring the Caucasian and this was in MY OWN COUNTRY! It didn't bother me in the least. We just had a laugh over it and enjoyed a great meal.

  14. #39
    Regular Member quiet sunshine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 22, 2005
    Location
    Wuxi
    Age
    42
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pachipro
    2. This one can be alot of fun. If they address her while ignoring me, my wife will start speaking English which will throw them for a loop! I will then say to the person, in Japanese, that my wife is not Japanese, but was born in America and cannot speak Japanese. You can just imagine the look of confusion and embarrassment on their faces when a foreigner is speaking Japanese and the Japanese-looking person is speaking English.
    Hahahaha!That's so funny! great originality! I can imagine their expressions, poor Japanese!

  15. #40
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by Pachipro
    Maybe your wife could say something similar to number 1 above while adding "He's been here 4 times this month and you still can't underestand him? Is his Japanese that bad or do you always discriminate against foreigners who can speak Japanese?" or "Is something wrong with your hearing? Can you not see that my husband is speaking Japanese?" Or something to that effect. I don't know what will work for you, but we have alot of fun and laughs with it rather than get irate over this aspect of their culture.
    I'd like to try, but my wife is not at all the person to reply to people like that (too polite and soft-spoken). Just the fact that I mention the problem at home tend to make her uncomfortable. Her English is probably not good enough to try answering in English either. They will know immediately that she is faking.

    This may not be unique to Japan, but may be an aspect of Asian culture in general, I don't know. As an example, some time ago my wife and I went out to a Korean restaurant here in the states for some great Korean barbeque. The waitress being Korean started addressing my wife in Korean. When my wife began speaking English, she apologized and began addressing me. So even here, in the states, they addressed the Asian looking person assuming she was Korean while ignoring the Caucasian and this was in MY OWN COUNTRY!
    I have never had this problem in Chinese or Korean restaurants outside Japan. Even when we went to Korea, the locals seemed to understand that my wife was Japanese. Maybe that is a way of dressing or her face that looks more typically Japanese. She also had light brown eyes, which is extremely rare for East Asians.

  16. #41
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandV
    Huh? This sentence does not make sense. Are you always this way to someone who has a different point of view?
    You said "I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese, I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).
    ".

    What we have been discussing since the beginning of this thread is not that it is offending for a Japanese to address a foreigner in Japanese, but at he contrary, not to, assuming that they are too stupid to understand.

    So it's not that I disagree with you, but I can't understand the point of this remark.

  17. #42
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by Pachipro
    I also find it very interesting that members Hiroyuki Nagashima and Yellow Emperor both selected Option 1 in their answers. I can't speak for Yellow Emperor, but we know that Mr. Nagashima is a Japanese...
    Yellow Emperor seems to be from Taiwan.

  18. #43
    Five times to Japan. ArmandV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 18, 2004
    Location
    Tarzana, California
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    You said "I used to have breakfast at Denny's in Shibuya and every morning the hostess behind the cash register always spoke to me in Japanese, I wasn't offended (especially since she was a cutie with a cute voice).
    ".

    What we have been discussing since the beginning of this thread is not that it is offending for a Japanese to address a foreigner in Japanese, but at he contrary, not to, assuming that they are too stupid to understand.

    So it's not that I disagree with you, but I can't understand the point of this remark.
    I think there was some confusion over the point of this thread. Other posters here have also indicated as such. Then you mentioned the manner of the Japanese persons ignoring you and talking to your wife instead. That cleared things up. I agree, it is thoughtless at least and just plain rude at worst.

    As for the hostess, I had been in the restaurant several days straight and presented my money to the same hostess. Yet she still addressed me in Japanese even though I've indicated to her that I don't speak Japanese.

  19. #44
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location
    西京
    Posts
    2,434
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandV
    Yet she still addressed me in Japanese even though I've indicated to her that I don't speak Japanese.
    Well, she could have the excuse of not being able to speak English or another language. However, when greeted with strange gestures, and the gestures continue when we start speaking Japanese, their only excuse would be to be mute, and in the cases I experienced they weren't as they talked to other customers.

  20. #45
    Hentai Koutaishi Lina Inverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 29, 2004
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    126
    I think it would be the best if they addressed foreigners normally in Japanese. I wouldn't be the least offended if someone asked if I could speak Japanese.
    However, I would be certainly offended if someone addressed me with gestures
    Guess the best thing to do in such a situation is to answer "わかりません。 日本語を話すください。" and repeat that until they start speaking Japanese with you

  21. #46
    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 18, 2005
    Location
    NIPPON/FUKUOKA
    Age
    51
    Posts
    49
    ここの議題について私は、よく理解していなかったよう に思います。
    翻訳ソフトを使った結果下記のように翻訳されました。
    「どのように、日本語は外国人を扱わなければならない か? 」
    「1.彼らは、彼らには日本語がわかることができなくて 、ジェスチャーを使うことができないと仮定しなければならない。」
    「2.彼らは、彼らが日本語(日本語では英語では)を話 すことができるかどうか、最初に彼らに尋ねなければな らない。」
    「3.人がわからないならば、彼らは日本語で彼らに講演 しなければならないか、ジェスチャーを使うだけで るか、よりゆっくり話す。」

    選択1について。
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が りませんので
    自分が外国人の立場で考えたとき、英語で話しかけられ たら困ります。
    また、日本のジェスチャーと海外のジェスチャーはいくつか違うと聞いています。

    例えば、「ごめんなさい」や「 りがとう」を表すジェ スチャーは、両手を わせて
    拝みます。
    また、「こっちに来て」は手のひらを下にして手を振り ますが、海外では「 っちに行け」となる
    らしい・・です。
    人の前を横切るとき、腰を屈めて片手を顔の前にだして 拝む形をとるのは日本独特だとも
    聞いています。

    選択2について。
    「日本語が話せなければ、相手にしない」といっている ようなものなので
    相手に対して まりにも失礼です。

    選択3は
    翻訳の意味が不明だったので除外しました。

    東京で道を聞かれたときは、片言の英語と電子手 の英 語辞書で対応していました。


    もし、議題の意味が違っていましたらご指摘ください。
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。

  22. #47
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location
    Sunny South Korea
    Posts
    229
    Thank you for posting that, Hiroyuki Nagashima-san.
    It helps to understand your vote, and possibly other things.
    I don't speak Japanese, but this is what Infoseek gave in machine translation.
    Is the translation correct?
    The title seems to be quite opposite from what I read.
    The translation says not as "How should the Japanese approach foreigners," but "How are the Japanese approaching foreigners."
    The original question in English, "How should the Japanese deal with foreigners" seems to have been mistranslated into Japanese.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infoseek tr. of Hiroyuki Nagashima
    I did not understand well about the subject for discussion here -- as -- I consider.
    As a result of using translation software, it was translated as follows.

    "How is Japanese which must treat a foreigner? "

    "1. -- them -- them -- Japanese -- it cannot understand -- You have to assume that gesture cannot be used.

    (2.) them -- Japanese (Japanese -- English) -- talk it does not ask [ whether すこと is made and or not ] them first -- if ら -- there is nothing "

    "3. -- people do not understand -- if it becomes -- them -- Japanese -- them -- lecture It must carry out, gesture is only used, or it talks more slowly. "

    About selection 1 Since I did not have the confidence which speaks English correctly, when he thinks in a foreigner's position, I am spoken to in English. たら困ります.

    Moreover, it is heard that some overseas gesture differs from gesture of Japan.

    For example, "I'm sorry" and JIE showing "thank you" SUCHA unites and worships both hands.

    moreover, "-- here -- coming -- " -- a palm -- the bottom -- carrying out -- a hand -- shaking -- seemingly, ます will become "go there" overseas -- it is ..

    When crossing a people front, the waist is bent and one hand is taken out before a face.

    It is heard that it is peculiar to Japan to take the form to worship.

    About selection 2 It has said, "It is not made a partner if Japanese cannot be spoken".

    Since like, it is too impolite to a partner.

    Since the meaning of translation was unknown, selection 3 was excepted. the time of being asked to a way in Tokyo -- English of babble, and the U.K. of an electronic notebook It corresponded in the word dictionary.

    Please point out, if the meaning of a subject for discussion is different.

    Since there is no confidence translated into English, it indicates in Japanese.
    Last edited by lexico; Feb 21, 2005 at 03:25.
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
    Z: You asked me how I knew implying you knew I knew. In fact I saw some fish, strolling down by the Hao River, all jolly and gay.

    --Zhuangzi

  23. #48
    As the Rush Comes Duo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 25, 2003
    Location
    The EU capital
    Age
    35
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    ここの議題について私は、よく理解していなかったよう に思います。
    翻訳ソフトを使った結果下記のように翻訳されました。
    「どのように、日本語は外国人を扱わなければならない か? 」
    「1.彼らは、彼らには日本語がわかることができなくて 、ジェスチャーを使うことができないと仮定しなければならない。」
    「2.彼らは、彼らが日本語(日本語では英語では)を話 すことができるかどうか、最初に彼らに尋ねなければな らない。」
    「3.人がわからないならば、彼らは日本語で彼らに講演 しなければならないか、ジェスチャーを使うだけで るか、よりゆっくり話す。」

    選択1について。
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が りませんので
    自分が外国人の立場で考えたとき、英語で話しかけられ たら困ります。
    また、日本のジェスチャーと海外のジェスチャーはいくつか違うと聞いています。

    例えば、「ごめんなさい」や「 りがとう」を表すジェ スチャーは、両手を わせて
    拝みます。
    また、「こっちに来て」は手のひらを下にして手を振り ますが、海外では「 っちに行け」となる
    らしい・・です。
    人の前を横切るとき、腰を屈めて片手を顔の前にだして 拝む形をとるのは日本独特だとも
    聞いています。

    選択2について。
    「日本語が話せなければ、相手にしない」といっている ようなものなので
    相手に対して まりにも失礼です。

    選択3は
    翻訳の意味が不明だったので除外しました。

    東京で道を聞かれたときは、片言の英語と電子手 の英 語辞書で対応していました。


    もし、議題の意味が違っていましたらご指摘ください。
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。
    lexico suggested that i had misunderstood the purpose of this post, i however don't know what to make of it and why it is in japanese and not english, but I guess i'll eat my words and just say sorry if I misunderstood, and thanks to lexico for clearing things up to me, although i'm still confused.
    Last edited by Duo; Feb 21, 2005 at 03:25.

  24. #49
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location
    Sunny South Korea
    Posts
    229
    For Duo: From the other posts, Mr. Horoyuki Nagashima is a Japanese software engineer who has been participating on the forum discussions offering help in any Japanese matters with what he knows as a Japanese. But feeling uncomfortable with his English, uses translation software to offer advice and information. You can see for yourself some of his posts here Horoyuki Nagashima.

    *a little history: There were several remarks about his vote in this thread which was a little surprising at first. I think he understood that situation and wanted to make sure he did not misunderstand the question. He posted how he perceived the question in Japanese which he believed the foreign speakers of Japanese could verify for him.*
    Last edited by lexico; Feb 21, 2005 at 12:25.

  25. #50
    修行中
    Join Date
    Jan 8, 2004
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by Duo
    i however don't know what to make of it and why it is in japanese and not english...
    The answer is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    私は、英語を正しく話す自信が りませんので...
    英語に翻訳する自信が無いので、日本語で記載します。
    The first sentence means "since I'm not confindent that I can speak English correctly..." and the second one is "I don't have the confidence to translate this into English, so I wrote in Japanese."

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. No Japanese credit cards for foreigners ?
    By Maciamo in forum Immigration & Foreigners
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: Feb 16, 2010, 23:26
  2. Are Japanese more hypocritical with foreigners ?
    By Maciamo in forum Culture Shock
    Replies: 208
    Last Post: Nov 9, 2009, 00:25
  3. Why don't the Japanese differentiate more between foreigners ?
    By Maciamo in forum Immigration & Foreigners
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: Sep 22, 2005, 21:53

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •