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View Poll Results: If a major quake hits Tokyo, will some Japanese murder foreigners in the confusion ?

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  • Probably, and aiming at other East Asians

    4 3.48%
  • Probably, and aiming at Westerners

    0 0%
  • Probably, and aiming at Muslims

    2 1.74%
  • Probably, and aiming at any foreigners

    3 2.61%
  • Who knows ?

    24 20.87%
  • Probably not

    27 23.48%
  • Surely not

    55 47.83%
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Thread: Will Japanese massacre foreigners if a major earthquake hits Tokyo again ?

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  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Will Japanese massacre foreigners if a major earthquake hits Tokyo again ?

    The 1 September 1923, the Great Kanto Eartquake hit Tokyo leaving about 100,000 people dead. In the weeks following the eartquake, many Japanese falsely accused the Koreans of poisoning wells or even to be responsible for the earthquake itself, which led to the massacre of 6,000 Koreans by the Japanese police and citizens throughout the Kanto region.

    My question is, do you think that such a thing could happen again in the events of a similar or worse disaster in Tokyo, given the racist attitude of some Japanese (it doesn't need to be more than a few % of the population) ?

    If it happens, will it be directed towards Koreans, Chinese and/or other Asians, towards Westerners, towards Muslims (given the new global anti-muslim trend) or all of them indistinctively ?

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  2. #2
    Junior Member DoctorP's Avatar
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    I voted "who knows"? It is definitely possible that people with hatred inside take advantage of a situation. That is true human nature. I would like to think that it wouldn't happen though! I will tell you one thing...if someone came after me with bad intentions they would be in for a world of hurt! Considering I would already be in a bad mood after the quake!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
    I voted "who knows"? It is definitely possible that people with hatred inside take advantage of a situation. That is true human nature. I would like to think that it wouldn't happen though! I will tell you one thing...if someone came after me with bad intentions they would be in for a world of hurt! Considering I would already be in a bad mood after the quake!
    Now, how will that be possible for a natual disasster? Did they just not give aid to the foreigner and died due to wounds and neglect which resulted from the earthquake? Japanese nationals nor anyone will take out their anger on those coming from another country unless thay are bombed or something. An earthquake is a natural disaster that is NOT the fault of another country. As such this question is really ludicrous.

  4. #4
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    If they did not do some riots, rapes and arsons first, it would not be occured

  5. #5
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    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29294
    after WW2, they were called " Sangokujin"
    why were they called "sanhokujin"
    There are a lot of descriptions of the Korean whom Douglas MacArthur saw after ww2 in Japan.

    and descriptions of the Korean whom Taiwanese saw after ww2 in Japan.

    it should learn what they did in Japan of that confusion.
    The same thing happened after Great Kanto Earthquake.
    Their riots rape, arosen ended, A new rumor started. " they attack us again"And, the tragedy started.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by caster51 View Post
    If they did not do some riots, rapes and arsons first, it would not be occured
    "The total death toll from these disturbances is uncertain; according to the investigation by the Home Ministry, confirmed victims of vigilante justice were 231 Koreans killed and 43 injured, 3 Chinese killed, 59 Japanese (including Okinawans) killed and 43 injured. Actual estimates range as high as 6,600, although politically independent studies put the figure at just over 2,500. Three hundred and sixty-two Japanese civilians were eventually charged (for murder, attempted murder, manslaughter and assault), though most got off with nominal sentences, and even those who were sent to jail were later released with a general pardon commemorating the marriage of Prince Hirohito. In contrast, the actual number of Koreans who were charged for crimes during this period were 2 for murder, 3 for arson, 6 for robbery and 3 for rape."
    From Wikipedia. 11 Koreans charged formally charged for wrongdoings, compared to 362 Japanese. The amount of help by the police was so significant in helping with the violence and covering up for the people who commit racist crimes.
    Surely, if there was an earthquake now, caster51 be the frontman in murdering foreigners, beliving they caused the earthquake. You would likely do what they did back in 1920s. Go around every house, and ask people to pronounce, 15~ 50K (jū-go-en, go-jū-sen) and (gagigugego). If they could not pronounce these correctly, they were taken out and beaten up or killed.

    You think Japanese government during the WW2 was faultless, and the blame is to be placed on all non-Japanese.

    Highlight below to reveal the atrocities of the Japanese government in human subject testing named "maruta" or treelog.
    Highlight below to reveal the most disgusting things you can read on the internet. Not recommended if you woudl rather stay out of the history debate and past warcrimes of the government.

    Vivisection
    * Vivisections were performed on prisoners infected with various diseases. Scientists would perform invasive surgery on prisoners removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body.[6] The infected and vivisected prisoners included women, children and infants.[7]
    * Vivisections were also performed on pregnant women, sometimes impregnated by doctors, and the baby removed.[8]
    * Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss.
    * Those limbs that were removed were sometimes reattached to opposite sides of the body.
    * Some prisoners' limbs were frozen and removed by saw.
    * Some prisoners had their stomachs surgically removed and the esophagus was reattached to the intestines.
    * Parts of the brain, lungs, liver, etc. were removed from some prisoners.
    * Prisoners of war were subjected to vivisection.[9]
    [edit] Weapons testing
    * Human targets were used to test grenades positioned at various distances and in different positions.
    * Flame throwers were tested on humans.
    * Human targets tied to stakes were used to test germ-releasing bombs, chemical weapons and explosive bombs.
    [edit] Germ warfare attacks
    * Unit 731 and its affiliated units (Unit 1644, Unit 100 etc.) went beyond the "testing" phase of biological weapons, and actively committed epidemic-creating germ warfare assaults against the Chinese people (both civilians and soldiers) throughout World War II. Plague-infested fleas, bred in the lab facilities of Unit 731 and Unit 1644, were spread by low-flying airplanes over Chinese populated locations, such as the coastal city of Ningbo in 1940, and the city of Changde, Hunan province in 1941. This military aerial spraying resulted in human epidemics of bubonic plague (the "Black Death") that killed thousands of Chinese civilians.[10]
    [edit] Other experiments
    * Some prisoners were deprived of food and water to determine the length of time before death.
    * Some prisoners were placed into high pressure chambers until they died.
    * Some prisoners were exposed to extreme temperatures and developed frostbite to determine how long humans can survive with such an affliction.
    * Some experiments were performed to determine the relationship between temperature, burns and human survival.
    * Some prisoners were placed into centrifuges and spun until death.
    * Animal blood was injected into some prisoners and the effects of this studied.
    * Some prisoners had lethal doses of x-ray radiation administered.
    * Gas chambers tested various chemical weapons on some prisoners.
    * Air bubbles were injected into some prisoners' bloodstreams to simulate a stroke.
    * Sea water was injected into some prisoners to determine if it could be substituted for saline.

    All from Wikipedia.
    Last edited by junjunforever; Feb 9, 2007 at 14:27. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    I vote for probably not.
    I say this for several reasons.

    Back in the 1920's the Japanese elite had one major concern.
    It was the establishment of the so-called PEACS, or Pan East Asian Commonwealth Sphere.
    It's aim was to promote self-reliance on a regional level and to have an equal say in the international arena not only as a nation, but also as a tightly knit group of countries in military and economic alliance with Japan in the center. When its ideal was challenged in March 1, 1919 in Korea and May 4, the same year, in China, those Japanese leaders were frustrated and fearful of the opposition that may lead to the eventual collapse of PEACS. This uncertainty and insecurity of Japan's leadership must be kept in mind when we discuss the massacre of 1923.

    The two Japans we are comparing, that of 1923 and that of 2005, are 72 yrs apart. The old, xenophobic, and totalitarian mindset of the average Japanese citizen has now been replaced by the new, individualistics, and cosmopolitan perspective. The old generation has been flushed out at least three times since then. Therefore there is little chance that such savage calls for genocidd can again drive the mass to the streets for lynching and torture of any one group of innocent alien residents.

    The "ugly Japanese" also seems to be a stock image portrayed in the media by attention seeking reporters, alarmists (since the late 1800's by the way ) and the broadcast networks, whether Japanese, Europian, American, Asian, or other. It is about time to declare that there is no more place in the media for presenting biased and prejudiced images of the Japanese people. In the worst case, such bad-mouthing of Japan may even help the minority ultra-right wing members to pursue their crazy ideals, whatever that may be. I firmly believe that they, the extreme nationalists and those media people who feed on them, are both dinosaurs that posterity will read about and study with amazement in the libraries and the museums.

    These are some of the reasons I vote for "probably not."
    Z: The fish in the water are happy.
    H: How do you know ? You're not fish.
    Z: How do you know I don't ? You're not me.
    H: True I am not you, and I cannot know. Likewise, I know you're not, therefore I know you don't.
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  8. #8
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    The two Japans we are comparing, that of 1923 and that of 2005, are 72 yrs apart. The old, xenophobic, and totalitarian mindset of the average Japanese citizen has now been replaced by the new, individualistics, and cosmopolitan perspective.
    Agreed, but let us not forget that Tokyoites have elected and re-elected self-proclaimed racist Shintaro Ishihara as governor. One particularity of the Japanese culture (compared to Western ones) is that people avoid telling what they really think ("honne") in public and will even go to incredible extend to fake opposite feelings and smile when they dislike something or someone.

    Then there are the minority of extreme-rightist riding black buses hollering nationalist music in the streets. This kind of organised neo-nazi could seize the opportunity to unleash their negative energy on foreigners when the time comes.

  9. #9
    Regular Member misa.j's Avatar
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    I voted for "who knows?", but I would like to think that it will never happen.

    It doesn't seem possible to me from the circumstances they have in Japan; having the US military bases on the land is one of the good reasons to make it difficult for Japan to do such an inhumane thing; another thing is that the foreigners are spread out all over Japan, not like they used to live in certain parts of the country, which makes it hard to even think the massacre is physically possible.

    Ordinary Japanese people are not armed including the Tokyo governor Ishihara Shintaro, hopefully. They neither know how to use weapons, nor how to fight back when they are pointed with weapons.

  10. #10
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misa.j
    Ordinary Japanese people are not armed including the Tokyo governor Ishihara Shintaro, hopefully. They neither know how to use weapons, nor how to fight back when they are pointed with weapons.
    A mob doesn't need to be armed to kill isolated individuals. Throwing loose objects (easy to find after an earthquake), stones or using big Japanese kitchen knives, beating them or throwing them over a bridge or high building, or whatever.

  11. #11
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misa.j
    It doesn't seem possible to me from the circumstances they have in Japan; having the US military bases on the land is one of the good reasons to make it difficult for Japan to do such an inhumane thing; another thing is that the foreigners are spread out all over Japan, not like they used to live in certain parts of the country, which makes it hard to even think the massacre is physically possible.
    Although your third argument has been effectively and even (gruesomely) discredited by Maciamo, I think your first two points, circumstatial yet very real, are good reasons to doubt the repeated massacre. But what would happen if the US pulled out? Also, being dispersed may also encourage certain readical Japanese to attack foreigners, expecting negligible resistence. Just for argument's sake. I still think the two points are valid.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Sally_Hawn's Avatar
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    I voted gSurely noth because nowadays most of the Japanese people are well educated (maybe not at your level but stillc). Educated people are not that easy to be manipulated. There might be some cases of Japanese individuals or groups attacking other foreigners, but I donft think there will be a massacre.

  13. #13
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally_Hawn
    I voted gSurely noth because nowadays most of the Japanese people are well educated (maybe not at your level but stillc). Educated people are not that easy to be manipulated. There might be some cases of Japanese individuals or groups attacking other foreigners, but I donft think there will be a massacre.
    The Japanese education system does not emphasize critical thinking at all. In fact, it is made to reinforce group concensus and confucianist ideas of hierarchy and respect of authority. It does help a lot manipulating people. That is why Japanese people are so obedient, hard-working and complain so little (to their boss, in public, etc.). For all these reasons, I think today's Japan is not so different from Japan 80 years ago. Lots of things have changed, but they are mostly economic, material (clothes, electronics...) or superficial (hobbies), not so much in the way people think and interact with each others.

    The fact that influential people like Governor Ishihara have racist ideals makes it uncertain what could happen in case of a major confusion where people stop listenning to reason because of fear or chaos.

  14. #14
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    I respect your other points, but this, can't be serious....
    Quote Originally Posted by Sally_Hawn
    nowadays most of the Japanese people are well educated (maybe not at your level but stillc).
    You meant that as a joke, right? 'Cause the "you" also refers to some Japanese members, too. No? Maciamo only? So, I think I know what you're trying to say, but not absolutely sure....so....

  15. #15
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    'Cause the "you" also refers to some Japanese members, too. No? Maciamo only? So, I think I know what you're trying to say, but not absolutely sure....so....
    Hmm. in fact I am European, not Japanese, although I live in Japan and am married to a Japanese.

  16. #16
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    Going back to the original question, and reading your responses Maciamo, I have to say I really don't know much about the Japanese people.
    And also I don't know if your arguments are only to prove a point, or whether it reflects a long-term observation of the people on the whole. That is, your personal experience with many Japanese people you've met.
    I mean I sense some kind of frustration, I don't know if this has anything to do, but are the ones you've seen or met, that much hopeless?
    You must have certain fascinations about the country, affection for at least something that is Japanese. So I would not assume you to be negatively biased against the Japanese. Then what would make you so strongly critical of Japan as a "genocidal threat?" Is it really that bad in Japan? I am a little surprised, actually.

  17. #17
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexico
    And also I don't know if your arguments are only to prove a point, or whether it reflects a long-term observation of the people on the whole. That is, your personal experience with many Japanese people you've met.
    I mean I sense some kind of frustration, I don't know if this has anything to do, but are the ones you've seen or met, that much hopeless?
    You must have certain fascinations about the country, affection for at least something that is Japanese. So I would not assume you to be negatively biased against the Japanese. Then what would make you so strongly critical of Japan as a "genocidal threat?" Is it really that bad in Japan? I am a little surprised, actually.
    Wow, what insight ! Very good deduction. Yes, my argument is more of a long-term observation on the whole rather than trying to prove a point. I am only thinking about the possibilities, but I voted "Who knows" as I don't think it will happen just that in some circumstances it could happen.
    I may have some frustrations regarding Japanese society, because like any other society in the world, it isn't perfect, and as I haven't grown up there, it is easier for me to see what is wrong. I am not more biased or critcial about Japan than any other country though, I am just critical (not only in the negative sense of course) of anything in general. That's my personality.

  18. #18
    Pink Lady's Number #1 Fan Flashjeff's Avatar
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    I voted "Surely not". I'd like to think that in the aftermath of a catastrophe, people would be more concerned with survival and helping others survive rather than looking for someone to blame. That's idiotic. Case in point: after the Northridge earthquake in California back in 1994, there were no reports of whites attacking blacks, Latinos or Asians. Maciamo, were there any such attacks after Kobe in '95? Foreigners have no control over natural disasters, to strike back at someone for thinking that way is primative to the nth degree, not to mention damned foolish.
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  19. #19
    Tadaima! okaeri_man's Avatar
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    yeah it didn't happen in kobe, it's not going to happen in any future tokyo earthquake. plus only a psycho in this day and age would go arround killing people after an earthquake.
    "The people who vote decide nothing. The people who count the vote decide everything." - Stalin

  20. #20
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okaeri_man
    yeah it didn't happen in kobe, it's not going to happen in any future tokyo earthquake. plus only a psycho in this day and age would go arround killing people after an earthquake.
    There are many psychos in Japan. If you had followed recent news, you'd see a guy who raped and killed a schoolgirl in Nara (sending picture of his deeds to the child's mother), school children killing each others with knives or pushing toddlers from the top of a building, teenagers killing their whole family when they are sleeping at night, a housewife who murdered her husband and keep the body in the fridge for months, someone killing the whole neighbouring family with a gun because they were too noisy, etc. ad nauseam. And that's just a sample of the weekly stories that are translated in English on sites like the Mainichi online. How can we be sure that some ultraracist guys wouldn't take advantage of the confusion to start killing foreigners after a tremendous earthquake ?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Shooter452's Avatar
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    Until I read the original post, my reaction was that this was the most ridiculous topic of the day. But I understand the purpose of this thread a little more completely now. I still think that this is sort of trivial, but that is a few treads up the ladder from "ridiculous" and that is more me making sense of it than it is criticism of the originator.

    I also clicked on "probably not" because I think that it is foolish to speak of certainty when we discuss future human behavior. However, given the ugly past of Japanese national behavior (and this is only one, minor example), it is possible.

    However, the people of today are not the people of seventy-five years ago. The Japanese people may still be overly self-aware, or even arrogant of their place in today's world (not necessarily my opinion, but one that can be heard from "talking heads" out there), but they are not the kind of people who would do something like this, IMHO. At least not those who I knew.

    The past conduct of a people, unlike the past conduct of single individuals, is not a reliable indicator of future conduct (unless you are a Democrat discussing the future behavior of Republicans...and vice versa!).

    Still, under the intense pressure of such a cataclysmic event, who can possibly know for certain?

    Not I, said the cat.

    Ira furor brevis est
    Last edited by Shooter452; Jan 22, 2005 at 02:13. Reason: to add a pithy Latin saying

  22. #22
    JREF Resident Alien Pachipro's Avatar
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    There are many psychos in Japan. If you had followed recent news, you'd see a guy who raped and killed a schoolgirl in Nara (sending picture of his deeds to the child's mother), school children killing each others with knives or pushing toddlers from the top of a building, teenagers killing their whole family when they are sleeping at night, a housewife who murdered her husband and keep the body in the fridge for months, someone killing the whole neighbouring family with a gun because they were too noisy, etc. ad nauseam. And that's just a sample of the weekly stories that are translated in English on sites like the Mainichi online. How can we be sure that some ultraracist guys wouldn't take advantage of the confusion to start killing foreigners after a tremendous earthquake ?
    I voted probably not as that was 1923 when people were not as educated or internationalized as today. Back then there was hardly any interaction with foreigners. In 2005 or later I doubt it. Granted you may have one psycho who might try something like that, but I doubt it.

    Getting to your quote, it is not that unusual what you mentioned as the same type of murders and such were going on back in the early 1970's and the years that followed and probably even years before then. I remember stories of kids killing their whole families, mothers killing children and themselves, kids throwing other kids off of buildings, etc. It has, and will always be going on in Japan. There are always a few psychos. Anyone remember the guy who cut off the heads of school children and kept them? Or the woman who cut off the penis of her military American lover with a piano wire because he confessed to her that he was indeed married and that his wife was coming to live with him in a few weeks?
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  23. #23
    Government Man Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    There are many psychos in Japan. If you had followed recent news, you'd see a guy who raped and killed a schoolgirl in Nara (sending picture of his deeds to the child's mother), school children killing each others with knives or pushing toddlers from the top of a building, teenagers killing their whole family when they are sleeping at night, a housewife who murdered her husband and keep the body in the fridge for months, someone killing the whole neighbouring family with a gun because they were too noisy, etc. ad nauseam. And that's just a sample of the weekly stories that are translated in English on sites like the Mainichi online. How can we be sure that some ultraracist guys wouldn't take advantage of the confusion to start killing foreigners after a tremendous earthquake ?
    Serial rapists.
    Angry housewives.
    Angry husbands.
    Children hacking up their parents bodies, and putting them in the basement.
    Arsonists.
    Hit and run drivers.
    Serial killers.
    Domestic disputes.
    Suicides.
    Children murdering other children.
    Mad bombers.
    Car thiefs.
    Armed robberies.
    White power members.
    Fanatical Christians fighting people.

    What do all these things have in common? That people are crazy no matter where you go. Come to St. Louis and spend a week there. You'll find out that there are just as many crazy people, than there are in Japan if not more. In the past week there have been more murders, rapes, car thefts, and God knows what in just one city that I'm beginning to wonder if the world is comming to an end.

    Doc
    "Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you... if and when your time comes round again. I do apologize for what must seem to you an arbitrary imposition, Dr. Freeman. I trust it will all make sense to you in the course of... well... I'm really not at liberty to say. In the meantime... this is where I get off." -G-man

  24. #24
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashjeff
    I voted "Surely not". I'd like to think that in the aftermath of a catastrophe, people would be more concerned with survival and helping others survive rather than looking for someone to blame. That's idiotic.
    Yes, but there are lots of idiotic people. Best proof, it happened in 1923.

    Case in point: after the Northridge earthquake in California back in 1994, there were no reports of whites attacking blacks, Latinos or Asians. Maciamo, were there any such attacks after Kobe in '95?
    But these eartquakes were relatively "minor". 6000 deaths in Kobe. I am talking about an absolutely catastrophic earthquake leaving hundreds of thousands of dead people (more like the recent tsunami catastrophe, but in limited to the Tokyo region). Of course, I can't imagine most Japanese acting violently (surely not a cute teenage girl who is too shy to look at someone in the eyes). I am talking about a minority of (male) nationalists, racists, yakuzas, boryokudan, etc. In fact in 1923, it was the police themselves (and the Japanese police is not known for being big fans of foreigners even nowadays).

    Foreigners have no control over natural disasters, to strike back at someone for thinking that way is primative to the nth degree, not to mention damned foolish.
    Still, it happened in 1923. People don't always react in a rational way in normal situations, let alone in extreme situations.

  25. #25
    HomicidalMouse
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    I think people are getting too stressed. 13 year old kids commit suicide because they get stressed out at school. If i got really really stressed i'd go crazy. Losing your house in an earthquake would be pretty stressful. And depression, theres another reason for people going crazy. Then again, crazy people arn't always the people who commit crimes.
    Back to the original question, if there is another massacre i dont think it'll be directed at one specific race. Lets just hope it doesn't even happen.

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