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Thread: Comparing Japan and the world => tolerance & prejudices

  1. #51
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    Maciamo rote:
    I don't like talking someone not here, but it is also true his outspokenness did not prevent him from getting his permanent resident status here. It was highly likely he would have had his right to be naturalised, if he had wished so. It was, however, just his cost/benefit analysis, EU or Japan passport.

    I don't know how many anti-G8 summit activists will be in Toyako, Hokkaido, next year, but you can find good hot springs there. Of course, tourists have right to be loud here, but go naked in hot springs, not on the streets there.

  2. #52
    Just me Glenski's Avatar
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    caster wrote:
    there are many Restaurant@that@refuse customers without letter of introduction
    And to do so without a legitimate reason is against the law. Same for hotels. Same for bathhouses. You say "Japanese only" signs merely serve to "distinguish" not discriminate. That's a crock. Letting in Koreans or Chinese but not other nationalities is discrimination. Who is to say that either of those nationalities speaks Japanese? Who is to say that other nationalities cannot? Going to a bar does not mean you have to speak Japanese anyway. People often just sit and chat with each other. It doesn't take JLPT 1 fluency to order a beer. Japan signed the anti-discrimination treaty in 1995 (twelve long years ago) and still refuses to do anything about it. That is not "distinguishing". Besides, "distinguishing" in the technical sense of the word as you have written here is blatant discrimination. Japan cries about wanting to have a seat on the UN security council, but it clearly shows no respect for human rights in many cases. You, caster, may feel it's nothing to see a sign that says a person is unwanted, and you may just go to the next place, but what if there is no next place? And, what about the principle of equal rights in the first place?

  3. #53
    Nobuta Power ’“ό Dogen Z's Avatar
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    Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night. Country clubs can keep non-members from playing on their courses. In some cases membership requires recommendations from 2 members. I could go on but I'd have to charge you so I'll let you do your own research. Gambatte ne.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean Dude View Post
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night. Country clubs can keep non-members from playing on their courses. In some cases membership requires recommendations from 2 members. I could go on but I'd have to charge you so I'll let you do your own research. Gambatte ne.
    i think the difference is about open discrimination and forged discrimination. Obviously, government cannot stop all forged discrimination. There are just too many loopholes.

    Although discrimination in japan does exist, i think it is quite benign and no worse than its neighboring countries. I would say China or Korea would have a worse record when its about treating foreigners right.


    There were comments about tourists so let me comment on that. I think in general, Koreans are the most likely to study abroad or go out on tourism in the under 35 groups. Many people will just like to go out on a back packing tours. As noted before, the problem with japanese tourists are their love of just visiting all the sites that are famous on post-cards. The problem with Korean tourists is that the older generation will just like to see/say/realize how their korean culture is superior.

    I think koreans and chinese are too proud of their cultures (claiming cultural superiority over other cultures) and this is one aspect japan has the best record in the region.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by junjunforever View Post
    I think koreans and chinese are too proud of their cultures (claiming cultural superiority over other cultures) and this is one aspect japan has the best record in the region.
    What does this have to do with discrimination in Japan? Not all Koreans or Chinese think our culture is superior.

    I think there's a difference in discrimination when it comes to discriminating for where you come from and discrimination when it comes to what you do. You can change what you do, but you can't change where you come from. Ethnicity is ascribed and job is given.

  6. #56
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    im sorry to say this,but anyone from the US can't say anything about equal rights and discrimination because it's still as big(bigger in my honest opinion)than it was in the 50s.

    If a white person calls a black person a nigger,there are litterally teams of lawyers who work for free to take every possession and cent the white person has.If a black person calls a white person a cracker or w/e,nothing happens,whitey has to suck it up and move on.

    If a white person hits anyone other than a white person they can slap a hate crime sticker on it,but it rarely works in the opposite direction.

    Hell,a sheriff got fired a few counties over from mine for deporting illegal aliens

    Also,any and all ethnic people and women get considered for a job before a white person

    I'm not a racist or bigot or anything,but before we can help other countries and preach to them on our soapbox we need to get our stuff straight.

    Personally I think it's sad that we let other races climb higher than us,because that just tosses their favored "we want equal rights" yell right out the window,they don't want equal rights,they want to be superior.

  7. #57
    Regular Member Elizabeth van Kampen's Avatar
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    Comparing Japan and the World always ends in, comparing Japan and America.

    As from May 1945 peace has come down on Europe, where once were so many wars. Many of our countries are united into the European Union and that while we are all quite different and we have so many different languages, yet "no more wars in our Europe" was the device. I just hope that one day even Russia will slowly turn towards to the Europeans.

    I believe that Japan is slowly busy trying something similar in Asia. It will also take many years before it begins to work, but a positive start is always welcome in our whole world.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen View Post
    Comparing Japan and the World always ends in, comparing Japan and America.
    If that was directed at me,I didn't compare Japan to America at all. I pointed out the flaws with America to make the point of a nation can't hope to improve/help others until they can fix their own domestic squables

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth van Kampen View Post
    As from May 1945 peace has come down on Europe, where once were so many wars. Many of our countries are united into the European Union and that while we are all quite different and we have so many different languages, yet "no more wars in our Europe" was the device.
    Umm, Falkland Islands? Milošević? France slowly becoming a Muslim country?

    If Europe is at peace, it isn't because of some noble ideal. It is because the last war was so devastating that it became apparent that the next one would annihilate everyone, hence, you guys pretty much sat back and let Stalin roll tanks into the entire Eastern half of your continent.

    Beyond that, you've abandoned your empires and fostered massive amounts of civil unrest throughout the third world by leaving power vacuums behind. Umm, yeah, the United States is guilty of imperialistic activities, but a lot of our actions are because we are cleaning up messes that you guys so casually left behind, messes that are, often enough, intrinsically tied to resources that our entire economy rests upon.

    In addition, economic prosperity is the primary reason for banding together into the European Union, not some humanitarian ideal. Sorry, people aren't that altruistic. Money is more important than peace, and if people think peace makes money, then by all means, they support and foster it.

    I believe that Japan is slowly busy trying something similar in Asia. It will also take many years before it begins to work, but a positive start is always welcome in our whole world.
    Well, they've got a long way to go when it comes to reconciling with their neighbors, and changing their history books isn't doing the job.
    Ὦ ƒΜƒΓῖƒΛ', ἀƒΑƒΑέƒΙƒΙƒΓƒΗƒΛ ƒ©ƒΏƒΘƒΓƒΒƒΏƒΗƒΚƒΝƒΛίƒΝƒΗς ὅƒΡƒΗ ƒΡῇƒΒƒΓ
    ƒΘƒΓίƒΚƒΓƒΖƒΏ, ƒΡƒΝῖς ƒΘƒΓίƒΛƒΦƒΛ ῥήƒΚƒΏƒΠƒΗ ƒΞƒΓƒΗƒΖόƒΚƒΓƒΛƒΝƒΗ.

  10. #60
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    Openminded Anarchy

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I agree that the younger Japanese are usually more open-minded than their elders (also less critical). But hentai manga isn't really the way to judge people's acceptance of homosexuality in real life ! Like in most Western countries, lesbians are more easily accepted than male gays in Japan, especially if they are bisexual (some men really fantasize women like that). But it's still a big no-no to admit yo are gay in Japan.
    So do you think it is better to be openminded and freewheeling all the time than comparatively closed minded? Did you know what caused the collapse of the Roman empire. It was the homosexuals that were allowed into the military. Why do you critisize the Japanese for. They are discriminating connoisseurs of good taste. They are openminded to the good things and import the good stuff while exporting and getting rid of the bad stuff, yet making quality products of export. To be openminded and opening yourself to freedom of everything exposes you to illegal activities and the sort, like illegal drugs, diseases and filth from other societies. Japanese people are discriminating because they rationalize what is good and what is bad. Affiliation with those of bad moral qualities will bring you down. You must have a balance of open mindedness to the good and close minded to the bad. Yet you seem to preach a freewheeling openminded society and that is anarchy. There would be no order of any kind.

  11. #61
    Fear my Niftyness MadamePapillon's Avatar
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    There is something sooo wrong with your logic...
    All Hail to the HYPNOTOAD *clap* *clap* *clap*

  12. #62
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    It's very obvious to me in regards to taboos, discrimination, racism, extremism, and all the other bad things in Japan.. But that's just me..

    I personally don't think it would worry most Westerners from Western countries, but it may be more of a concern for let's say Chinese or Asians from Western countries whilst they are living in Japan.

    Japan obviously has many good points if you are willing to put the bad points to one side, let the Japanese sort themselves out, and you get on with life whilst living their..

    I love the healthy food, safety factor (In Kyoto), the conservatism (In Kyoto), service, accuracy, punctuality and just the overall feel..

    The biggest problem I have is making to many female friends and then my wife not feeling good so the friendships have to end.. Yes, friends only, not sex friends!

    Their are MANY bad points, and I could write a book, but I won't as this posts get mighty long as it is!

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    Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.

    For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.

    However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
    They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
    They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
    That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.

  14. #64
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    Japanese people simply hate people with dark skin because Japanese people tend to regard people with dark skin as unclean.
    That's plain racist in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by dongdong View Post
    Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.
    For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.
    However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
    They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
    They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
    That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.

  15. #65
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    Making such sweeping generalizations, dongdong san and brave_new_world san, which do not reflect quite a true and accurate picture of Japan today, only leads to the tarnish of any position you two may wish to propagate.

    What you have said is simply not the whole picture, nor a very so accurate cause for whatever degree of aversion towards darker skinned people there may be.

    There is no such thing as race, anyway, so I would like to propose here...in other words, I am requesting... that you two stay away from such blanket statements, and those few cases that you may wish to present, that you provide valid background information on them.

    Thank you. Mars Man

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    It's not a generalization. It is my friend's experience.
    Even if you regard as a generalization, you haven't seen some Japanese man with black girl as a couple.
    I have never seen any Japanese guy dating black girl.
    I saw some Korean guys or Laosean guys or Thai guys dating some black girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars Man View Post
    Making such sweeping generalizations, dongdong san and brave_new_world san, which do not reflect quite a true and accurate picture of Japan today, only leads to the tarnish of any position you two may wish to propagate.
    What you have said is simply not the whole picture, nor a very so accurate cause for whatever degree of aversion towards darker skinned people there may be.
    There is no such thing as race, anyway, so I would like to propose here...in other words, I am requesting... that you two stay away from such blanket statements, and those few cases that you may wish to present, that you provide valid background information on them.
    Thank you. Mars Man

  17. #67
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    Well ... so far,I have only seen an actual pairing of Japan-born Japanese boyfriend & American black girlfriend ( they were dating at that time according to their own personal story ) on one local Asian language TV channel website celebrated " diversity month " back in 2005.

  18. #68
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    The main thing which surprises me is the statistic about Japanese not wanting to live next to homosexuals. I had always read that certainly in the past, homosexuality was not looked down upon or discriminated in Japan, it was rife amongst many professions and many people knew about it yet no one seemed to really care much about it either way- it was one of those "what you do in your own time behind private doors" is your own business sort of thing.
    But things seem to have obviously changed according to Maciamo's statistics. Is this because of western influence since the post war years?

  19. #69
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    things seem to have obviously changed according to Maciamo's statistics. Is this because of western influence since the post war years?
    http://park11.wakwak.com/~siori/dansyoku.html

    Japan is not Christianity
    it was not sin...

    then Japan was influenced to change oppositly as iniquity because of Meiji policy
    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%B7%E8%89%B2
    http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizo-iza/e/c35...0c30b03ae14fbc

    check 男色 out...
    http://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%9...-8&sa=N&tab=iw


    so was women's status ?
    http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1377400

  20. #70
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    Slanted statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Searching Google, I have found the following results for the above keywords :
    - “―©ˆ€ => 661
    - ƒzƒ‚ƒZƒNƒVƒ…ƒAƒ‹ => 9,000
    - homosexual => 3,790,000
    - homosexuality => 3,690,000
    - gay => 52,300,000
    - homosexualite (with accent on the "e") => 433,000
    Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality.
    These stats are slanted. Most readers of Japanese are in Japan, but readers of English are all over the world. If Japanese was the world lingua franca, I am sure you would see similar results.
    Also we have 4-6 major monthly gay mags, and so many Japanese gay websites. Try using Japanese web sites and you will find almost countless sites. No, Japan is not as homophobic as many foreigners like to think it to be.

  21. #71
    Œ‹ΰŽ– (what a tasty dog) A ke bono kane kotto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsakakibara1 View Post
    These stats are slanted. Most readers of Japanese are in Japan, but readers of English are all over the world. If Japanese was the world lingua franca, I am sure you would see similar results.
    Also we have 4-6 major monthly gay mags, and so many Japanese gay websites. Try using Japanese web sites and you will find almost countless sites. No, Japan is not as homophobic as many foreigners like to think it to be.
    Try in other European languages :

    492,000 for homoseksualiteit (Dutch)
    1,520,000 for omosessualita (Italian)
    1,590,000 for Homosexualitaet (German)
    6,550,000 for homosexualite (French)

    Each have much less native speakers than Japanese.

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_new_world View Post
    Japanese people simply hate people with dark skin because Japanese people tend to regard people with dark skin as unclean.
    That's plain racist in my opinion.
    Sometimes it's true. Look at the homeless in Japan.
    Last edited by A ke bono kane kotto; Aug 16, 2008 at 17:52. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    I like ”όlƒlƒX

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongdong View Post
    Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.
    For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.
    However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
    They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
    They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
    That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.
    There are more South-East Asians than Caucasian people in Japan. Maybe it's not that difficult for them to enter Japan.

  23. #73
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    "Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night."

    Landlords can also discriminate against those with bad credit and child molestors. We can classify people in many ways, but not all classes are equal for purposes of anti-discrimination laws. There is no history in the US of prevailing discrimination against lawyers and rock musicians.

    US anti-discrimination laws are usually aimed at protecting the immutable classes of race, ethnicity, sex, etc.

  24. #74
    Nobuta Power ’“ό Dogen Z's Avatar
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    Prejudice Test

    Are you prejudice free? I don't think so. It's built into us, a survival mechanism from the time our ancestors lived in the African plain. If you think otherwise, just take this test: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici...lectatest.html

    The Japanese discriminate on a number of variables, even among each other. I think we all do. Nationality is one component, but eductation and status takes precedent, I think. For example, an Indian IT engineer may be rated higher than say an European IT engineer because of the status of India's IT prowess.

    So discrimination is a complex issue, and we can't assume we're better than the Japanese. Don't expect instant acceptance, it's not the Japanese way. In general, though, if you can demonstrate you're a respectable person, the Japanese will treat you with respect. If you're loud, pushy, inflexible, and impractical, you won't be respected, even if you're Japanese.
    Last edited by Dogen Z; Aug 9, 2009 at 19:28.

  25. #75
    Nobuta Power ’“ό Dogen Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogen Z View Post
    Are you prejudice free? I don't think so. It's built into us, a survival mechanism from the time our ancestors lived in the African plain. If you think otherwise, just take this test: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici...lectatest.html

    The Japanese discriminate on a number of variables, even among each other. I think we all do. Nationality is one component, but eductation and status takes precedent, I think. For example, an Indian IT engineer may be rated higher than say an European IT engineer because of the status of India's IT prowess.

    So discrimination is a complex issue, and we can't assume we're better than the Japanese. Don't expect instant acceptance, it's not the Japanese way. In general, though, if you can demonstrate you're a respectable person, the Japanese will treat you with respect. If you're loud, pushy, inflexible, and impractical, you won't be respected, even if you're Japanese.
    Did anyone take the test? How'd you do?

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