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View Poll Results: Is Japan a Western country (please read the thread before)

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  • Yes

    35 9.80%
  • Maybe, depends how you see it

    123 34.45%
  • No

    186 52.10%
  • Don't know

    13 3.64%
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Thread: Is Japan a Western country ?

  1. #76
    Regular Member Jean-Francois's Avatar
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    So maybe China and Korea are western as well, since they are in that direction as well.
    I know you're kidding. China and Korea are never western.

    Japan... difficult to say. Hmmm, don't you notice the western media like New York Times and the Economists don't really include Japan in Asia? It is always Japan and Asia. Not Japan of Asia.

  2. #77
    Emperor Gakihito Gaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Francois
    I know you're kidding. China and Korea are never western.
    Neither is Japan.
    I Live In Your Toilet, Smells Bad In Here...

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  3. #78
    ...what?!... Sinspawne's Avatar
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    Tough question It does depend on how you see it.
    Geographically, the earth is round so just spin it a bit and east becomes west lol (jk)

    When it comes to industrialisation. can it be more industrialised?
    I've heard that Japan is building so much that the price of concrete reinforcement have gone up all over europe : )
    Its on the front line in computer technology as well, and i believe japan uses more of the technology in dayly life than most western countries.

    In my view the answer would be yes.. maybe..
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  4. #79
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    The more I look at Japan's deep-rooted culture, such as morals or social interractions, and the more I realise how very un-Western Japan is. But it is certainly one of those non-Western countries which has learned and adopted the most from the West in its lifestyle and politico-economic system.

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  5. #80
    Regular Member Jean-Francois's Avatar
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    Post Western = 西 洋 , Japan = 東 洋

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaki
    Neither is Japan.
    Honestly, it is none of my business whether Japan is a western country or not.
    But before (not as common nowadays), Chinese people referred Japanese as 東 洋 人 , Westerners of the East. So, if “western” is a relative term, then Japan is a Western country (the most westernized? more westernized than those Chinese people who called Japan 東 洋 ) in East Asia. (^_^)

  6. #81
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    Hi, everyone

    It's really an interesting topic. But in the post-war period (50s - 60s), many Japanese scholars had dicussed to argue that Japan is a Western or Eastern nation. Among them, perhaps Umesao Tadao is one the most famous scholars. He wrote a book named "An Ecological View of History (Japanese Civilization in the World Context)" in Japanese language (Chuo Koron Publishing) (and has just been translated into English currently, 2002, if I remember exactly). From his perspection, he saw the The Old World as an elliptic diagram and divided The Old World into 2 Zones. The first one has 2 part, the western-most and eastern-most of the ellipe, namely Western Europe and Japan, are similar in ecological conditions and developing progress, and the second one located in the center, namely the 4 world of China, India, Russia and Islamic-Mediterranean and its satellite countries in Umesao's view.
    From this point of view, we may see lots of things interesting and this book was ranked among the top 10 books that influenced Japanese after WWII (the 4th).

  7. #82
    Samurai Golgo_13's Avatar
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    How about this:

    Japan doesn't have to be anything but itself.

  8. #83
    The Funky Homosapien. King of Tokyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golgo_13
    How about this:

    Japan doesn't have to be anything but itself.
    I'll kanpai to that lol

    America, land of opportunity, mirages and camouflages - more than usually
    Speakin loudly, sayin nothin, you confusin me, you losin me
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  9. #84
    Samurai Golgo_13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King of Tokyo
    I'll kanpai to that lol

    Kanpai !!!!

  10. #85
    Junior Member Ogumo's Avatar
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    Japan is a eastern nation with far too many western elements for it's own good.

  11. #86
    –é˜IŽ€‹ê! TwistedMac's Avatar
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    says you!
    –é˜IŽ€‹ê!

    www.orz.eu
    I find affence at your post as I ware eyeglass and have lmited site.
    Sankyuu~!
    http://japan.orz.eu - A site for my trip to Japan.

  12. #87
    Kurushii kurai ni Gackt_Camui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Of course, it all depends on what we call "Western". There are several definitions.

    First, the geographical opposition between Europe and Asia, but that alone has turned out to be a too simple definition, as Australia or New Zealand are more East than Asia, but definitely Western. So is it a cultural or ethnic distinction rather purely geographical ?

    Secondly, Western used to refer to the Capitalist world during the cold war. The East-West opposition was especially valid for Europe, but on a global point of view, America the NATO countries laid West, while the communist world (not only the USSR, but also China and North Korea) laid East.

    Finally (I think), most Europeans consider that a Western country is about the same as an industrialised/developped one.

    The 2 latter points, Japan is definitely Western, and I think that's also where most Europeans would place Japan (from the opinions I have heard). Nonetheless, Japanese always stress the opposition between themselves and Westerners (or foreigners in general). They certainly not feel Western, but what if others consider them as such because they have a different definition ?

    Before developping more deeply, I let you reflect on this and give your opinions.
    its eastern whats the matter with you

  13. #88
    Regular Member blessed's Avatar
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    Just because they stopped carrying katanas everywhere doesn't mean they stopped being Japanese.

    Just because you can find a few Macdonalds' there, doesn't mean they turned American.

    European economic policies don't make the country European, it's just that economics was mainly developed in Europe and America.

    And just because they embrace some beliefs of Americans doesn't make them
    American; I don't suddenly turn Japanese if I start sleeping on the floor and taking off my shoes before entering my house?

    Just cause they went through some changes since the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate doesn't mean they are no longer who they are: change is inevitable.
    Who was Hitler?... a petty dictator living in the times of Stalin.

    Everyone is intelligent...some before; some afterwards.

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  14. #89
    Cute and Furry Ewok85's Avatar
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    I'd call it an Eastern country with Western influences. Apart from geography how people think is what makes a country what it is.

  15. #90
    Samurai Golgo_13's Avatar
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    Are we still on this?

    Japan is not a western country. It's a modern country.

  16. #91
    Just me Surronded's Avatar
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    I think that is not. The culture and manners are really diferent, i see it from here (i'm not in japan). I can't tell more, but from what i heard (trustable sources) is quite diferent.

  17. #92
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    i don't seem to get it why they like western countries that much... our countries truly suck ... and the most what i hate is that stupid import into Japan... because thats destroying the Japanese culture

    i dont mind if there's anime, manga and more stuff here... but i dont want Japan to change into some stupid western country like USA .

    i like Japan how it is / was .... and why do Japanese people always show their t-shirts and stuff with the flag of usa on it... or other countries.. it makes me wanna say.... "ehh i come here for Japan, i don't come here to see stuff from my country"

    am i talking the truth or not ?

  18. #93
    –é˜IŽ€‹ê! TwistedMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    i don't seem to get it why they like western countries that much... our countries truly suck ... and the most what i hate is that stupid import into Japan... because thats destroying the Japanese culture

    i dont mind if there's anime, manga and more stuff here... but i dont want Japan to change into some stupid western country like USA .

    i like Japan how it is / was .... and why do Japanese people always show their t-shirts and stuff with the flag of usa on it... or other countries.. it makes me wanna say.... "ehh i come here for Japan, i don't come here to see stuff from my country"

    am i talking the truth or not ?
    not.

    your first question (or rather statement):
    "i don't seem to get it why they like western countries that much"
    I shall explain with an old saying: the grass is always greener on the other side

    how japan "was" depends on what era you're talking so i have no idea what it is you want there.. if you mean the samurai period... sure.. why not bring back a time when only the samurai could have names, everyone else were to only be known by their profession ("hi fisherman!" "well waddayaknow! hi cobbler, haven't seen you in a while, how's horsedungsalesman doing?") and samurai killed people for looking at them the wrong way (not an exaduration) and everyone was just plain false and murderous.. that's a GREAT time to live in.. especially if you're horsedungsalesman's apprentice or something.

    copying the good stuff from another countries is a way to evolve as a people.. to reach new technologic advances.. what's the use in re-inventing the wheel?

    the "it was better in the old days" mentality is dead wrong.. it WASN'T better in the old days.. everyone remembers the good parts of everything...

    it's like when i was in the army... I hated every moment of guard duty.. I also don't have a single real memory from guard duty.. or any other boring or otherwise negative task.. I do however have alot of cool memories.. but if I add them all up they'd probably be something like a week.. I didn't do my services for a week.

    the bad parts are always set aside.. so whatever picture you have of old japan is romantisized(?) to a very high degree... just go there and enjoy how it is now.


  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedMac
    not.

    your first question (or rather statement):
    "i don't seem to get it why they like western countries that much"
    I shall explain with an old saying: the grass is always greener on the other side

    how japan "was" depends on what era you're talking so i have no idea what it is you want there.. if you mean the samurai period... sure.. why not bring back a time when only the samurai could have names, everyone else were to only be known by their profession ("hi fisherman!" "well waddayaknow! hi cobbler, haven't seen you in a while, how's horsedungsalesman doing?") and samurai killed people for looking at them the wrong way (not an exaduration) and everyone was just plain false and murderous.. that's a GREAT time to live in.. especially if you're horsedungsalesman's apprentice or something.

    copying the good stuff from another countries is a way to evolve as a people.. to reach new technologic advances.. what's the use in re-inventing the wheel?

    the "it was better in the old days" mentality is dead wrong.. it WASN'T better in the old days.. everyone remembers the good parts of everything...

    it's like when i was in the army... I hated every moment of guard duty.. I also don't have a single real memory from guard duty.. or any other boring or otherwise negative task.. I do however have alot of cool memories.. but if I add them all up they'd probably be something like a week.. I didn't do my services for a week.

    the bad parts are always set aside.. so whatever picture you have of old japan is romantisized(?) to a very high degree... just go there and enjoy how it is now.


    well first to say... you use "you can't re-invent the wheel" WAY TOO MUCH IN YOUR POSTS

    and im talking about the time after WW2 ... and im kind of interested in samurai can't help it but i'd rather live in a country that has it's own and unique culture

    you will probably reply and say

    "they have their own unique culture"

    but in fact that culture is fading in the years... i don't want Japan to change into some european country like a big capital with no nature at all ...

    i don't want Japan to change from beautiful .. to some stinky sewer

    but that's probably only me who thinks this way and looks at it this way... but people don't seem to get it.

    i don't come to a country just for technology
    because i have enough in my own country

    i just want to see alot of the nature and old houses and stuff ...
    and about the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side"
    it means copycat everyone ... so you rather see Japan look like USA ... instead of having it's own look ...
    it also mean's... if you like a celebrity like Britney Spears or whatever ... everyone should look like that?

    and by the way... Japan grew trough import and export ... and not by changing their whole culture into some kind of USA fans culture

  20. #95
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    Well, Japan is not like the US, or any European country, either. If you don't believe me then just look around a bit on this forum, esp. Maciamo's posts.

    Also, this was said in the Why Japanese copy everything thread, but copying and assimilating something into your own culture is not the same thing as becoming a clone of another culture. The Japanese are no more American for importing American things than the Americans are Japanese for importing Japanese things.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn
    Well, Japan is not like the US, or any European country, either. If you don't believe me then just look around a bit on this forum, esp. Maciamo's posts.

    Also, this was said in the Why Japanese copy everything thread, but copying and assimilating something into your own culture is not the same thing as becoming a clone of another culture. The Japanese are no more American for importing American things than the Americans are Japanese for importing Japanese things.
    people don't see and don't read
    since i said that Japan is slowly changing into an european country
    as it's already so mega cool to have english slogans in your commercials so called to be modern.

    do you see any real big changes in US ? not really except for that manga and anime gained popularity (but that's mostly because of fansubs)

    Japan whatsoever changed alot ... alot of things from the US can be seen in Japan... import and export is important... but i don't see why Japan is evolving too much...alot of traditions (older one's) are cut off
    and no im not talking about the samurai one's ... i'm talking about the normal lifestyle one's in those days. Those were cut off in the last 50 years or so .

    Will there be more huge changes? Because if Japan is going to look more like USA ... i could go on vacation to USA instead of Japan... b/c it's cheaper.

    still i'll go to Japan no matter what...

    another note
    technology doesn't always bring good.

  22. #97
    –é˜IŽ€‹ê! TwistedMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    well first to say... you use "you can't re-invent the wheel" WAY TOO MUCH IN YOUR POSTS
    once? first time I use it.. not to mention almost first time I post a serious post.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    and about the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side"
    it means copycat everyone ... so you rather see Japan look like USA ... instead of having it's own look ...
    it also mean's... if you like a celebrity like Britney Spears or whatever ... everyone should look like that?

    and by the way... Japan grew trough import and export ... and not by changing their whole culture into some kind of USA fans culture
    you're not very good at sayings huh?... it means you'll always think everyone else has it better than you do.. that you'd always rather have what they're having...

  23. #98
    Where I'm Supposed to Be kirei_na_me's Avatar
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    OnegaiNL, if you want to talk about this subject, you can go to a really good and popular thread by Maciamo:

    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1303

    Let's try to stay on topic, even though this topic is lame to begin with.
    i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart)

  24. #99
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    And done. Alright, now:

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    people don't see and don't read
    since i said that Japan is slowly changing into an european country
    as it's already so mega cool to have english slogans in your commercials so called to be modern.
    Since it's not a European country and it's slowly changing, why couldn't you go there and not have a problem with it being European?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    do you see any real big changes in US ? not really except for that manga and anime gained popularity (but that's mostly because of fansubs)
    Well, there is the influx of kanji tatoos and just kanji everywhere in general, video games, anime, and martial arts.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    Japan whatsoever changed alot ... alot of things from the US can be seen in Japan... import and export is important... but i don't see why Japan is evolving too much...alot of traditions (older one's) are cut off
    and no im not talking about the samurai one's ... i'm talking about the normal lifestyle one's in those days. Those were cut off in the last 50 years or so .
    What traditions have Japan lost from the past 50 years that you so desperately want back?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    Will there be more huge changes? Because if Japan is going to look more like USA ... i could go on vacation to USA instead of Japan... b/c it's cheaper.
    See above on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnegaiNL
    another note
    technology doesn't always bring good.
    What does that have to do with anything?

  25. #100
    Regular Member blessed's Avatar
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    aha, I have it: why should they be western... if that means having a big mac once in a while, or watching disney or drinking Earl grey or listening to.... Radiohead (go Radiohead!!!!! )...
    I see a lot of people eating sushi, watching anime, driving japanese cars, buying sony products, playing Playstation, Gamecube...and I'm currently on a site called "Japanese Reference"...
    ...in other words, I, and probably the westerners reading this, are getting "easternised", "they" are getting "westernised", and we'll all happily meet in the middle, or switch sides, hwhatever...

    another new though: making the east democratic isnt westernising them... just like getting laws out of Babylon (located, ironically, in ancient Iraq) wasn't... "Mesopotamianising" everyone; its just the spread of information.

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