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Thread: Why are Japanese women either in a hurry to get married or just don't

  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Post Why are Japanese women either in a hurry to get married or just don't

    Although the average age of marriage has been steadily increasing in Japan as in most Western countries, it is often obvious to those with female Japanese friends in their late teens or twenties that a lot of them do talk a lot about marriage, and seem only to wish to get married as soon as possible.
    People seem to be getting married later because of economic reason.

    Japanese women are still required by most companies to quit their job once they get married or have a child. So getting married later is the option for those who want a carreer or just enjoy getting a salary on their own to spend it on brand clothes and accessories, or travels (something they can afford as many stay with their family until getting married).

    One reason marriage is important in Japan is that nobody would think of having children without being married. Japanese law does not recognise the father of a child born of un non married couple, and as women are socially discourage from working after having a child, marriage is the only solution.

    The BBC's following article attempts to shed light on why Japanese women's dilema regarding marriage.

    BBC News : Japan's women wary to wed

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    But its success seems as much due to a rejection of marriage as a new-found love for the canine.

    "There are lots of women who have dogs as their family or child," said Rie Shimozono, the shop's owner. "They carry the dog in a bag so that they are always spending time with it."
    Are dogs replacing babies as people get married later ? Instinct and hormonal urges seem to push Japanese women (and men, to a lesser extent) to buy dogs and raise them as if they were their own babies. Rare are the dogs in Tokyo that do not have their clothes for cold weather walks. In my experience, dogs never sleep outside in Tokyo (no garden anyway), and more often than not sleep in their owner's bed (the same way as babies and small children sleep in their parents' bed in Japan).

    Dogs are certainly a substitute for those who can't or don't want to have children. But why wouldn't they if they feel such hormonal urges ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    Their husbands work long hours; child care is limited; baby sitters are expensive; and if women decide to work part-time, they are paid less than half that of a full-time worker.
    Yumiko said she wanted to get married, but only if she "found a nice guy". She said she had a boyfriend, but did not see him as marriage material. "It's fun to play with him but I don't think he's reliable enough as a husband. Sometimes he can't make decisions."
    This is a typical case. Japanese girls like having sex (more freely than their Western counterpart), but the strict social norms regarding marriage push them to seek very reliable ("tayorigai ga aru") husbands, which in Japanese means have a stable job, sufficient income and willingness to pay for all the family might need, including the wife's hobbies and shopping, as long as she has to care about the house and children and can't work.

    Reliable often only means "rich and generous", and not minding working till midnight if necessary, while the wife can meet friends, do shopping, eat at restaurants or watch TV during that time. No wonder that few Japanese men are seen as "reliable" (even in a sado-maso culture like Japan ). But no wonder too that when Japanese women do find a reliable partner, they only wish to get married. As the BBC says :

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    "Japanese women tend to be very practical and very pragmatic. What are the benefits of getting married?"
    That is exactly that. If they can find a caring husband that will pay for everything while they only have to care about the house (which they have to do if they live by themselves anyway), that surely is interesting. If they can be assured that they will be able to have children (which most of them long for) instead (or rather in addition) of a dog and not have to worry about money, few are the ones that would refuse such a "golden package". But as Japanese women are growing more exigent about their financial needs, gradually used to luxury goods, it's only natural that they are having a hard time finding suitable husbands, and so many prefer not to get married at all - for fear of sacrificing their priviledge life.

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  2. #2
    Jinushi
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    There are a lot of women who don't feel the typical biological clock ticking away in their lives, while there are some men who do. It sounds as though Japanese women are no longer using marriage as their corporate ladder. Now that they have experienced freedom and success on their own terms, they don't want to give those things up, which is what a traditional marriage would require. Can't say that I blame them. In fact, I can really relate to this part of the article:

    "I guess they do not plan to stay single, they just don't meet with the kind of people they want to marry. They don't feel obsessed with being a housewife. If you find a good husband, that's fine, and if you don't, that's also fine.
    As a woman, I believe in living my life on my own terms, and if I meet a man I can share my life with, great. If not, at least I'm living my life the way I feel I need to live it. A man would add to my life, not fill some void for something (or someone) missing in my life. It sounds like Japanese women are feeling the same way these days.

    Perhaps the change in Japanese women's attitudes towards marriage will help force changes within the workforce for Japanese women, i.e. allowing them to work and continue their careers while married, etc. It might also create changes in the way Japanese men and women share household chores and child care as well. So in that respect, this could be a very positive trend.

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    well I think it is simply the "sex in the city" syndrome... and also, they might not have souls.. so they fill emptiness with material goods. then again, it could be just the foolish "sex in the city" syndrome


  4. #4
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Japanese law does not recognise the father of a child born of un non married couple, and as women are socially discourage from working after having a child, marriage is the only solution.
    This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially now that we have DNA testing. What an archaic way to force people into the institution of marriage!

  5. #5
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially now that we have DNA testing. What an archaic way to force people into the institution of marriage!
    Especially that even a positive DNA test does not legitimate the father. Marriage is all that count, even after the baby's birth, and even if the mother's husband is not the genetic father. From my understanding, in case the genetic father was not the husband, and this was proved by DNA test, the genetic father has still no rights under Japanese laws.

  6. #6
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Especially that even a positive DNA test does not legitimate the father. Marriage is all that count, even after the baby's birth, and even if the mother's husband is not the genetic father. From my understanding, in case the genetic father was not the husband, and this was proved by DNA test, the genetic father has still no rights under Japanese laws.
    OMG, that's outrageous!

    I think there needs to be a men's liberation movement in Japan!! Biological fathers are definitely discriminated against--even to the point of losing the right to parent their own child! Unbelievable!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member cicatriz esp's Avatar
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    This is a typical case. Japanese girls like having sex (more freely than their Western counterpart), but the strict social norms regarding marriage push them to seek very reliable ("tayorigai ga aru") husbands, which in Japanese means have a stable job, sufficient income and willingness to pay for all the family might need, including the wife's hobbies and shopping, as long as she has to care about the house and children and can't work.
    I love how it seems that they think they can just have fun at each stage in their lives without any fear of repercussions. "Oh, i'll do as many guys as i want while i'm young, and then i'll marry a rich husband who won't care about my slutty past and will pay for everything". That may work for some people and that's fine, but it's not my cup of tea i guess.

  8. #8
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by cicatriz esp
    I love how it seems that they think they can just have fun at each stage in their lives without any fear of repercussions. "Oh, i'll do as many guys as i want while i'm young, and then i'll marry a rich husband who won't care about my slutty past and will pay for everything". That may work for some people and that's fine, but it's not my cup of tea i guess.
    The sad thing is, from what I've been reading around here on the forum about Japanese marriages, the husband actually turns over his paycheck to the wife. So from what I can tell, Japanese men--or any man in a marriage in Japan, I guess--are horribly discriminated against! It's as though they are being used as money-making machines for their wives. Just like some women in other countries are used as baby-making machines. I'm sorry, but that's just [email protected]#$%!!

  9. #9
    Junior Member Midori's Avatar
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    I'm 19 -caucasian- and i would like to get married with my japanese boy-friend after my university graduation as soon as it's possible. Am i mad? Maybe i am, but i know him for some years and he wants to be my careing husband and loving father for our children.

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    Where I'm Supposed to Be kirei_na_me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    The sad thing is, from what I've been reading around here on the forum about Japanese marriages, the husband actually turns over his paycheck to the wife. So from what I can tell, Japanese men--or any man in a marriage in Japan, I guess--are horribly discriminated against! It's as though they are being used as money-making machines for their wives. Just like some women in other countries are used as baby-making machines. I'm sorry, but that's just [email protected]#$%!!
    There are many men(including Western men) who have lost custody of their children and can't get it back because of Japan's laws, or lack thereof. The wives can move out, take the children, and there's really nothing the men can do. It has been especially bad for some Western men who took their Japanese wives and moved to their(husbands') home countries. The wife will decide she doesn't want to be with her husband anymore and she will get the children and go back to Japan, leaving the father helpless, because Japan never signed the Hague Convention.

    For example:

    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showth...gue+convention

    And you can find others if you do a search with Hague Convention.

    It's really sad.
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  11. #11
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    Apparently the laws in Japan differ to the ones in America. Especially the women in general. I am wondering if Japan has laws where people get lower taxes if they live together rather than getting married. Do you think that Japanese people are over hormonal that they actually can't live together because if they did they would have a child? This seems quite odd since they are only human. I believe the law in illinois is that two people who are married get about 7000$ off taxes if single and living together and 6000$ if you are only married. You lose 1000$ by getting married. This seems like quite the oddity too see such women running around. I understand that many places like China wish to have men as the more dominant person who succeeds with a great cash flow. Seeing how women get fired because of getting married seems like total discrimination. I think this may go a bit deeper than what you have said, perhaps there are more money matters to be discussed of why this happens.
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    Junior Member Mahoneko's Avatar
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    My wife is Japanese, she married at 25, so not easly or late. I think the reason that some get married early and some late is financial. If they get married early (normally to an older guy) they can avoid a dead end job and little money. If they are educated or determined enough to have a career, they can get married late while earning a lot of money.
    I think the "not having a child out of wedlock" is a bit of an old fashioned view of Japan - though it is still the case in many of, if not a majority of familes, many Japanese are coming to terms with children out of wedlock or divorce. I think most Japanese parents would be relieved in many cases just to get grandchildren, even iof it was out of wedlock.

  13. #13
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God
    I am wondering if Japan has laws where people get lower taxes if they live together rather than getting married.
    Yes, they do. The Japanese gov. encourages people getting married, so it's only natural.

    I believe the law in illinois is that two people who are married get about 7000$ off taxes if single and living together and 6000$ if you are only married. You lose 1000$ by getting married.
    Well, I don't think non married couples have any form of recognition and certainly no tax rebate in Japan.

    Do you think that Japanese people are over hormonal that they actually can't live together because if they did they would have a child? This seems quite odd since they are only human.
    Why should it be odd. Because they are only human, there are times when they cannot control themselves. What's more, pill has only been legalised in Japan a few years ago, and is far from widespread. Japanese often find it strange for married couples to use condoms, as they expect married couples to make children (strong social and familial pressure this way).

    Seeing how women get fired because of getting married seems like total discrimination.
    That's right. Read my article on the subject : Discrimination in Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahoneko
    I think most Japanese parents would be relieved in many cases just to get grandchildren, even iof it was out of wedlock.
    Not on the father's side, as they would not be recognized.

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    declining births

    How bad is Japan's declining birth problem?

    Here in Singapore this problem is getting quite serious. Our government if offering generous cash incentives to all mothers who have 3rd and 4th child.


    url: http://www.singaporean.per.sg

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    unsutainable. they dying faster than they reproduce.

  16. #16
    Jinushi
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirei_na_me
    There are many men(including Western men) who have lost custody of their children and can't get it back because of Japan's laws, or lack thereof. The wives can move out, take the children, and there's really nothing the men can do. It has been especially bad for some Western men who took their Japanese wives and moved to their(husbands') home countries. The wife will decide she doesn't want to be with her husband anymore and she will get the children and go back to Japan, leaving the father helpless, because Japan never signed the Hague Convention.

    For example:

    http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showth...gue+convention

    And you can find others if you do a search with Hague Convention.

    It's really sad.
    This is really scary. I assume it's the same for Japanese men who want to return to Japan with their children--the mother who is not Japanese would be out of luck? With laws like that in place, I would be fearful of having children at all. Yet it's probably the kind of thing most people don't research prior to marriage, most likely because it's hard to believe that type of law would even exist. It's so archaic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Why should it be odd. Because they are only human, there are times when they cannot control themselves.


    Considering the laws that discriminate against biological fathers, I'm surprised Japanese women can even find anyone to have sex with! I mean, condoms can break!! No wonder there has been an increase in hostess bars (or whatever those are called), where the men are there primarily for conversation. If I were a man, I would be afraid of impregnating any woman in Japan, assuming I wanted to parent my offspring!

    Also, I remember reading a thread here where you and Kirei were discussing Japanese marriages and how the wives controlled the money. It was a very interesting discussion! Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it. I know I would have a problem with having to ask for money in a marriage. I used to ask my married friends how in the world they managed their joint bank accounts. I've always been independent and on my own, so I cannot fathom sharing an account. But you had the perfect solution! Separate bank accounts. That's perfect!! Even better if you can have three accounts--one for household bills and maybe even a savings account connected, and then two separate but equal accounts between each partner, that is theirs and theirs alone. That's so logical and fair. It's definitely what I'm going to do when I get married or live with someone forever.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Mizumi's Avatar
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    I haven't posted much in the past (I should more) but my god this situation is so extremely sexist in both directions! (Imagine that, Japan being sexist )

    First of all, it seems very obvious that japanese women are becoming drunk on newfound freedom. Women who searched for rich older men to pay for everything in the US would be considered pretty whorey.

    And men definetly ought to have rights to their children! I think it's outrageous how fathers are discriminated against. I think I'm slightly different than many guys my age (in that they only want to have sex) but I want to have a good marriage and care for my children. I have stated this before in some other threads but I really want to have a good marriage. I also think that japanese women having low expectations of their husbands in raising the chlidren is stupid. I would want my wife and I to have a fair and balanced relationship and each have a part in raising our children.
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    Japanese people rarely make sense. They are quite an illogical group of people at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by december
    Japanese people rarely make sense. They are quite an illogical group of people at times.
    Aah! Then this is proof that they are human.

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    I can't believe some of the things I read. I had no idea that women are expected to quit their jobs after marriage or haveing a child. Talk about bout unfair. I think it is great that they are enjoying their freedom.

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    It is an Economic Decision and the clock is ticking....

    My friend is an American guy and found out that his Japanese wife is already married to another guy - She never got divorced from her first husband!!!!

    It was purely an Economic decision for her - The new husband had more money.

    My friend met her and married her in Japan and had registered with the local government office as required in Japan. However, the Japanese wife as it turned out had been married to another man in the US. This US marriage was a legally recognized marriage in Japan, consequently, according to Japanese law, she was guilty of a crime, bigamy.

    Eventually the American guy had to enagage legal help, which took an incredible amount of time and money that he had to pay to get the mess sorted out. He had to engage both US and Japanese legal counsel and ended up in Japanese family court.

    My friend was uncharacteristically naive and was taken advantage by this girl looking to meet a well off foriegn guy. The word is that this Japanese woman is back out looking for the next guy, so please BE CAREFUL!
    Last edited by cato1776; Aug 11, 2009 at 08:24.

  23. #23
    Swedish town of trolls Trollhattan's Avatar
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    Women traditionally married for economic dependancy and companionship.Nowadays,,some prefer to fullfil personal enjoyment and settle down at a later age.

  24. #24
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    It is certainly not true that all Japanese women marry for money. My wife married me 34 years ago when I was penniless and had few prospects. Furthermore, she did it against her family's wishes.

    And she still loves me, lucky guy that I am.

    I turn over my pay checks to her. She manages the money because she's a lot better at it than I am. I'd just make a mess of it. Besides, I always have my credit cards. lol

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