Ah but being in Nice, you are most likely referring to some immigrant or to some illegal alien. To mind comes north africans, some arabs, or maybe persons from eastern europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riven
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Ah but being in Nice, you are most likely referring to some immigrant or to some illegal alien. To mind comes north africans, some arabs, or maybe persons from eastern europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riven
yes, you are right. They have bad reputation. It is quite real that some always try to get in trouble with people in the street, but some "white" or French people are not as "perfect" as said. As in Japan, I don't think that all bicycles are stolen by gaijin people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo
Many fullblood Japanese citizens also get stoped by officers quite frequently when they are on bike, esp. when they look young (because bike theft is mostly committed by juveniles). Those Japanese kids however don't scream discrimination. Maybe they should start complaining about that something backward in the Japanese society that's somehow obviously oppressive and discriminatory because it's after all Japan we are talking about.
I was with a Japanese friend in Tokyo (near Takaido) last Sunday when he was stopped about 2 am on suspicion of bike theft for nothing more than a broken headlight. How that could be the basis of anything but a cooked up show of force I still haven't figured out. :?Quote:
I have respect for many institutions in Japan, but the police are not one of them. They know how to put on a show and harass innocent people, but they would be hopelessly lost and vastly undertrained if they were ever presented with a real challenge.
This is true too in Japan...but like everywhere it is easy to place the blame on the non-local :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Riven
japanese people tell me that its the chinese that steal bikes, then ship them back to china.
the reason why I used to "grab a bike" everyday was because A: there was a large pile of unused, unlocked, unloved bikes near the station & B: I bought a bike, but it was stolen.
no Chinese allowed
http://www.fowang.org/suzhai/images/...usr/17_785.jpg
What is that sign for? Is it a door to a shop or restaurant?
yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Spaceghost
a door to a shop/restaurant
Yeah, I've heard the same thing and your logic makes perfect sense :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dadako
Having trouble making out all the bits, and I am in a bit of a hurry, but the sign also asks that people without their little fingers (ie yakuza) also not come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Time
Also people with tattoos
As a person who loves just about anything japanese, it saddens me to hear that a lot of people there treat other asians(south east asians in particular) badly. I would like to visit Japan someday and make some friends but I'm now thinking twice about it. I hope I am wrong about my impression about Japan and make some japanese friends in the future :souka:
(emphasis aded)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
I don't see the connection.
People who are not religious (especially not Christian) can certainly have morals. Otherwise, Japan could never be one of the safest nations on the planet.
In elementary school in the U.S. I never had classes in Ethics and Morals like I did in Japan ("Doutoku".)
It is unreasonable or even irrational to expect Japan to have no discrimination when most western countries have the same problem. Since when did the U.S. stop having discrimination based on race, gender, religion, sexual preference, age, weight, attractiveness, income level, etc.
Since when did Western European nations that have ethnic or racial minorities stop having any problems?
Or is it a more serious offense if the Japanese do the same thing?
Thats what that is! Ah ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
Don't take any of this to make an impression..form your own opinion. It's nice just to keep your eyes and ears open plus keep an open mind too. Don't worry about too much until you experience this wonderful country because even though you hear all this.....we still live here and there must me a reason for that. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJames
Are you the type of person who is saddened by rumors? Most other east-Asian nations have had a bad history with Japan, and people are still prejudiced against the Japanese.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJames
You've never even been to Japan and you're already pre-judging.
Ask yourself this question--if the Japanese treat other Asians so poorly, why are there so many of them there? So many continue to go there, legally or illegally?
If I knew I wasn't going to be welcome somewhere, I sure as hell wouldn't go there.
One thing no one is willing to mention is the crimes being committed by Chinese and other foreignors in Japan. Are we in serious denial? Some merchants would rather refuse service than to risk and problems.
It creates a very very poor impression upon the Japanese when foreigners commit crime and makes headline news. Their feeling is, if you are a guest in someone's house, you behave yourself. What if the Japanese went to China and committed crimes? Do you think the Chinese would still treat them well?
Golgo, maybe you should read the whole sentence before comenting it.. The answer lies just after the comma : "Japan is a country where few people believe strongly in religious, political or philosophical ideas. In other words, morals and ideals are not a major concern, because people rely a lot on common sense and values inculcated by the educational system or the society"Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
This was a praise, not a criticism. "Religion and morals" are not sufficient to make a society safe, because most of main religions developped such a long time ago that their values and morals do not fit the present world. Another problem with "morals" is that people usually think it is universal, which is one the worst aberration of the human mind, what creates misunderstandings and wars.
I believe that moral rules cannot work in any situation, and therefore people should always use their common sense and reason to know what behaviour they should adopt, case by case.
Japanese rely on common sense, but are unfortunately too influenced by stereotypes and tend to always simplify things. They should be taught analytical criticism, so as to understand more easily what kind of information can be trusted and which is exxagerated or false (eg. when reading newspapers, or hearing some stories about foreign countries). I learnt that at school with emphasis on it in almost every subject (language, history, science...).
But discussing how should ethics be taught is probaly more suitable to another thread.
This has been a bit surprising to me as well. But it isn't necessarily always a matter of creating justifications of consciously being shielded from reality. Some friends a while back for instance were planning to invite an African American student into their home on an exchange program and were genuinely horrified when it didn't go over so well with some of their acquaintances, ashamed and shocked not to have realized racism was such a latent problem in Japan. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by orochi
The problem here is that you use the word "foreigner" putting everybody in the same category. I think that people staying in Japan should be divided, if not by country, by purpose of staying in Japan. Crimes tend to be commited by people who are not trying to adapt to Japanese society, are not in Japan of their own will (or reluctantly, to make money), or are US soldiers stationed there (again, not because they want to adapt or live there, but not really for money either).Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
I am pretty sure that if we analyse the status f people committing (serious) crimes, we will find that the vast majority are either illegal or economic immigrants (+ US soldiers). There are probably few people with a working visa (which requires that the sponsoring company pays a salary of at least 250.000yen/month), or with a spouse, investor, diplomatic, religious or permanent visa.
I would be really interested to know the percentage of crimes committed by visa status as well as by country (so as to see how high is the crime rate of people coming from developping countries compared to others).
Well that already happened, and not just during WWII. Lots of stories of Japanese businessmen "partying" with prostitutes in China.Quote:
What if the Japanese went to China and committed crimes? Do you think the Chinese would still treat them well?
I've always wondered about all these signs etc, like the one above, or often in baths that don't allow yakuza in, I was always under the assumption that yakuza are feared, and they would rough the people up if they did not "respect" them.
I think I will read a chapter of Musashi and then goto sleep :)
I have no idea where these ideas come from and how they are purpetuated, from many many sources on both sides I imagine.
My girlfriend is chinese, she and her chinese friends call japanese people "the f**king jap" however we study japanese together all the time and she plans to back to Tokyo with me next year to do modelling. It's all just a joke, not a nice one but meaningless all the same. Some Japanese people are really odd, especially in the UK, where the the oddballs seem to be shipped over by the dozen.
Japan is what you make of it, MichaelJames please don't be scared off! The fact remains that Japanese have a large amount of energy to promote peace and well being, regardless of past desputes between asia, its something that shouldn't affect our generation! I'm sure there are young racists, everywhere, thanks to thier ignorant pairents and the ignorance of thier of brains.
How about burglaries, robberies, fraud, and murders?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
And just how are the average Japanese supposed to distinguish them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
By the signs they wear?
As for how the Japanese treat other Asians, also consider how a Chinese would be treated in Indonesia, or how a Korean would be treated in Vietnam, and all kinds of combinations and permutations. I doubt that any one group would be treated like royalty anywhere else. It's just that so much attention is focused on Japan because that's where they all go to.
Again, why would anyone go there if they knew they were going to be treated so horribly?
It also makes a poor impression when the media and governmental agencies issue stories about how crimes committed by foreigners are going up. They don't mention facts such as that there are many more foreigners (so of course foreign crime would go up) or that crime by Japanese are going up just as much if not more. It's easier to stoke xenophobic tendencies than to address the real issues (like poor performance of the national police agency).Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
There isn't a nation on this planet that doesn't have a little bit of xenophobia, and Japan is no exception. I'm willing to bet all kinds of different reasons add up to this. I.E. Japan is an island nation, has a long history of isolationist policy, etc.
Funny thing about the bikes. When I was a college student here, I was stopped a couple of times by cops asking to see my registration. I thought it was strange at the time. Then, just last week I met someone who "borrowed" 5 bikes in one night. He happened to be an English teacher, too....
:p
Sterotypes like these always have some truth mixed up with exaggeration.
:argue:
I don't think you can distinguish between them but I think you see the point Maciamo is getting at.Quote:
And just how are the average Japanese supposed to distinguish them?
Also, I know I said it in some post somewhere maybe this one. I checked some stats from the Japanese government and this is what I basically got.
80% of crime caused in Japan is caused by foreigners not a part of Japan (not permanent residents or the legal ones...you know the foreigners foreigners... :D ) and 50% of that number (or 40% out of 100%) was by US military people.
As mdchachi very pertinently said, the problem is that the authorities and media are misleading the public in a xenophobic way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
That is right, but it is the role of the government to educate the people and discourage xenophobia. Japan is one of the few Western countries to encourage it, and that is where the problem lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_pierrot
That is why I would like the media and government to compare stats and tell people exactly the proportion of crimes commited by Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Indonesians, Brazilians, Americans, etc. They could also mention the crime rate per country (eg. 2% of Americans residing in Japan have committed crimes at one time or another), and see where Japanese stand. I am pretty sure that lots of small European countries have a crime rate close to 0%.
yeh rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
I know you're stats mad Maciamo, however isn't it wiser to make your judgements based on experience not information alone?
89% of statistics are made up.
BuSmo wrote:
Wouldn't that be 80% of reported crime? I'm sure a lot of illegal activity occurs in every country where the rich and powerful can suppress it, or in cases like domestic abuse or acquaintance rape where incidents are never brought to the attention of authorities.Quote:
80% of crime caused in Japan is caused by foreigners not a part of Japan (not permanent residents or the legal ones...you know the foreigners foreigners... ) and 50% of that number (or 40% out of 100%) was by US military people.
Since this is about racism in Japan, I won't go into what I've seen/heard/read/experienced in Ireland, but methinks that insular and homogenous cultures with a bent to conform have many traits in common. But then, I recall even in "the most multi-cultural city in the world" - according to the UN, that is - my parents and I had encountered some explicit discrimination and bigotry.
Maciamo wrote:
Let me assure you that Ireland, a population of less than 4 million people, has an extremely high crime rate per capita across all categories. I'll research figures if people ask for stats, although the Irish media aren't archived very extensively online (all the negative news seems confined to radio and TV).Quote:
I am pretty sure that lots of small European countries have a crime rate close to 0%.
Yes, unreported crime doesn't count :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nekosasori
I hope that you and Dadako didn't misunderstand me. I meant the the crime rate of people coming from small European countries (Benelux, Scandinavia...) living in Japan is close to 0%. That seems obvious as I have never heard of any crime committed by any of them and there are usually less than 1000 people of each of those countries living in Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by nekosasori
@ Maciamo - ahh, I apologize - that was not apparent to me. I'm not sure what a realistic count would be of Irish nationals living in Japan (long-term, over a year?) - although I believe you. As an aside, I imagine a lot of Australians in Japan would have Irish ties.
Actually, I did do some research about Irish crime rates (within Ireland, that is) and they claim that compared to Denmark or New Zealand that Eire has a lower crime rate. I don't believe this, however.
You think the FBI or the Scotland Yard has a higher clearance rate than the Japanese police?Quote:
Originally Posted by mdchachi
But it's an unfair comparison since the crime rates are much higher in the U.S. and the UK.
People tend to judge others by the impression they get. Just like in any other country. If you wear a suit, carry a brief case and have a neat appearance, you WILL be treated a little better than someone with long hair wearing old jeans and a torn T-shirt, regardless of race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
I don't even understand why discrimination in Japan has to be such a major issue here anyway.
Has anyone seen the posts about how Frank White and I have been treated in the U.S. in the "white-Japanese relationships" thread?
Are there any chapters of the Ku Klux Klan in Japan? In case nobody knew, there are in the U.S.
If a lot of foreigners ended up somehow in Uzbekistan, chances are most of them will be discriminated against.
Do you mean on this board or in real life?Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
Give me a link, please? If not, then I'll look forward it later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
It says "here."Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddha Smoker
http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5384
I assumed so but wasn't sure if you mean where you live or Japan, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
I didn't have to. "[M]orals and ideals are not a major concern [to them]" was all I needed to see. I inferred that to mean that the Japanese are immoral. IMO, morals are important in any society, and Japanese certainly have them. Perhaps your idea of what a moral is is different from mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
"The Japanese do things that may be considered immoral by other cultures"
As long as they're done inside Japan I would think what they consider moral or immoral is more important, not other cultures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlogD
If this theory is true, then foreigners in Japan better be well-prepared�
The Japanese economy is heading to a strong recovery. Growth (the increase of consumer confidence and purchasing power of the Japanese people) is coming from inside while threats (fear of terrorist attack in the US market and tightening of monetary policy in mainland China) are coming from outside. However, threats 危 also create opportunities 機 . For the same reasons, a lot of money from the Hong Kong and US stock exchanges has flowed into Japanese mutual funds.
Yeah, that was a hot topic of various radio talk shows in Hong Kong last summer. And most of the Chinese newspaper headlines read some like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer
Shame on Chinese people -
or
Shame on Chinese people -
And yes ... the HK media says more than 50%.
Completely different, apparently... It has always been clear to me that morals is something that is acquired and rigid. People need to be taught morals and follow those very strict rules, even when it doesn't make sense. For example, if Christian morals says "you must not lie", then you just cannot lie without commiting a sin, even when it would be better for everybody if you did. The problem of morals is that it is rigid and opposes common sense and reason. As a philosopher, I believe that people fall in the world fall in 3 categories :Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo_13
1) Those who use (religious) "morals" they were taught and don't have to think about why it is this way, just follow it. This is usually related to strong religiousness.
2) Those who follow their common sense, which is somewhat acquired by the culture and society you live in.
3) Those who use their logic and reason in a case by case manner, so that they always choose the best solution adapted to the situation.
Japanese mostly fall in the 2nd category. Americans from the Bible belt (South East) and Muslims around the world typically fall into the first category. I am part of the 3rd category, which is also unfortunately the rarest (as people don't like to use their brains). Lot's of people use a combination of the 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer
no Chineses allowed
I am very sorry ... it should be Dream Time. I know you two are different. Dreamer from Paris has short hair and glasses and Dream Time from Vancouver has long hair and a high forehead.
I was just eating my dinner, reading and typing at the same time ... Oh, man! Now I have to apologise for being off-topic