Another Twofold Response...
My, what is it with all these off topic arguments in here? We were supposed to be discussing the differance between Western and Japanese values--not the age or origin of a culture.
(Why do people always attack something that has no relavance to someone's argument when they can't attack the main point?)
Well, since it's been brought up...
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Originally Posted by Maciamo
Are you saying that Germans do not feel ties with the ancient Germanic tribes from which they derive ? Or that Italians do not consider themselves as the heirs of the Romans ? Or that modern Greeks regard themselves as completely a different civilization than ancient Greece (but still call the Olympics their invention) ? Well. if you ask them, I sincerely doubt that their reaction will be very different from what Japanese say they feel toward their ancestors.
What a people consider themselves to be and what they actually are can be two completely different things. The fact is that whatever the modern Greeks may beleive, they did not invent the Olympics--they are merely imitating the ancient Greeks just like all the other countries that currently participate in the modern Olympic Games. Likewise, the Itallians may consider themselves the heir to the Romans and the Germans may feel a connection to the tribal cultures that preceded them--but they are not the same civilizations. Even a cursory glance reveals vast differances in the moral, social, and philosophical foundations of these societies compared to their historical counterparts. This is not to say that the values changed over time to adapt to new situations like Japan--but rather that the core beliefs upon which they are founded have changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
In the same way, the adjective "Gallic" is still used to refer to something typically "French", from France's ancient name "Gallia" (still used in modern Greek language, btw). "Britain" comes from Latin "Britannia". I don't know in the US, but Latin and Ancient Greek are still taught in I think every (Western ?) European school, and my parents' generation almost all had to learn Latin for about 6 years (if you have ever seen some of the Monty Python's movies, you will understand what I mean).
Again, youre not talking about the same civilization--here your talking about anthropology. When used in this sense the term "Gallic" refers to genetic descent--not culture. After all the term "homonid" still applies to modern humans--but that doesn't mean we share the same cultural foundationas a Cro-Magnon or a Neanderthal.
(Though sometimes I wonder... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...icons/grin.gif)
As for language, that is merely an example of cultural borrowing. The anceint greek and latin languages were a good thing, so many different cultures copied them and adapted them into their own style.
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Originally Posted by Maciamo
We use everyday Roman alphabet. English, which comes from the Ancient Anglo-saxon language (outside the Roman empire), has adopted over half of its vocabulary from Latin and Greek. We still quote or learn Greek philosophers (who hasn't heard of Socrates, Plato or Aristotles ?). And we still make movies (not any, but blockbusters) about the Romans (gladiators or various emperors) or Greek legends (Troy, Ulysses, Jason, the Titans, Medusa, Perseus, etc.). The US is a very good example, not just for movies, but architecturally, with neo-classical courts of justice, museums, parliaments, Capitol, White House, etc. Why so much Graeco-Roman influence if it "has been thoroughly uprooted and seperated from it's cultural background", as you say ?
Absolutely, as with the Olympic Games--it is merely the imitation of another culture.
We use gunpowder too, and that comes from easern civilizations--are you suggesting Brittan is descended from ancient China merely because they decided tea and explosives were good inventions and began using them? Since you started this thread to point out the differinces between those cultures I would think not.
Borrowing art and inventions from other cultures is a fairly common practice--but it does not mean that the ideals of the origional culture are borrowed as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
Then, just looking at names, which reflect a good deal of the culture (and continuity over the centuries, across language groups, and when civilizations collapse and regenerate), I see that most countries of Latin languages still use Roman names, and almost all of them exist and are commonly used in English too (have a look at
this short list).
So I personally do not feel like Westerners have lost touch with their ancient (mostly Graeco-Roman) roots, even in the US. I would even go further and say that these roots are so strong and vivid in everyday life, that people from other completely different cultures like Japan are now aware of quite a bit through Western and mostly American influence (eg. they know Greco-Roman gods, some philosophers or Roman emperors, they can read and write in "romaji", build Graeco-Roman style architecture, etc.).
Again, we're talking about influence--not descent. We also borrow from eastern culture and they borrow from us--but as you pointed out, there is a very large difference in the foundation of our values and beliefs.
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Originally Posted by Ewok85
Theres some key words being used here; culture and civilisation. The aborigines were tribes of people, many many tribes who lived seperate from the other tribes. You cant deny they had culture, but was there civilisation? Not quite.
A more bigoted remark I couldn't have hoped for, Ewok85. You've proved my point excellently--thank you.
Denying that a group of people has a civilization simply because they don't live the way you do is the very definition of prejudice. With most tribal peoples, there are often many seperate and very different goups--not unlike the various cultures of Euorope--if they are sufficiently different, then they might be considered seperate civilizations; but merely being made up of fewer members or being less technologically advanced does not make it any less of a civilization. Some people live with the land, others change it to suit their needs--this is merely another example of the differances between various cultures.