China suspected of providing missile technology to N. Korea

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Feb 2, 2006, 22:59
Wang

China suspected of providing missile technology to N. Korea

China suspected of providing missile technology to N. Korea

Thursday February 2, 9:16 AM

(Kyodo) _ (EDS: THIS IS THE FOURTH OF FOUR NEWS FOCUS STORIES ABOUT CHINA'S INTELLIGENCE WAR)

In 1970, Libya sent a special envoy to China to buy nuclear weapons, but Chinese leaders, including Premier Zhou Enlai, refused to deal, saying the weapons were not for sale.

But immediately after 1974, when India carried out a successful nuclear test, China reversed its nuclear nonproliferation policy and provided nuclear arms technology to Pakistan.

According to a U.S. Army Intelligence Agency report in May 1975, China dispatched 12 scientists to Pakistan to train nuclear engineers.

In April 1983, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a telegram that Pakistan had made several atomic bombs.

The U.S. State Department said in a document at the end of the year that China had expanded its cooperation to include a design drawing for nuclear equipment.

At the end of 2003, 20 years on, Libya announced it had abandoned all plans to produce weapons of mass destruction, and allowed nuclear arms experts from the United States and Britain to make on-the-spot inspections.

In January the following year, 25 tons of nuclear arms-related parts and documents discovered were carried to the United States.

A U.S. newspaper said that among the documents, there was a design drawing for nuclear weapons written in Chinese.

It was a drawing for an older type of nuclear weapon from the 1960s, believed to be a drawing, which Pakistan's "Father of Atomic Bomb," Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, obtained from China and which was sold to Libya.

Since the 1980s, China has joined the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), and has also joined the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), formally taking part in the international framework for preventing nuclear proliferation.

But China is still a source of technology for weapons of mass destruction. Chinese enterprises are entering the lucrative and dangerous business and are involved in exports of materials related to such weapons to Iran and other countries.

Sanctions were imposed by the George W. Bush administration on such Chinese enterprises in 14 cases by the end of 2004.

To Iran, China has sold a design drawing for a uranium ore-conversion facility and the antisubmarine cruise missile C-802.

To North Korea, China is suspected to have supplied missile technology, and machines and parts needed for nuclear development.

U.S. intelligence authorities are paying keen attention to the visit to North Korea by Xiong Guangkai, Deputy Chief of General Staff of the People's Liberation Army, in early August, 1998, immediately before North Korea's surprising launch on August 31 of its three-stage, medium-rangeTaepodong-1 missile.

The U.S. National Security Agency reportedly suspected in late 1998 that the China Academy of Launch Technology was working with North Korea on its space program to develop missiles.

And it obtained information that Chinese enterprises have cooperated "directly or indirectly" with North Korea in the field of its nuclear weapons programs and is investigating whether China was involved in the development of the Taepodong missiles.

The article is here.
Apr 20, 2006, 16:44
Henry G

It is definitely a propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!
If North Korea has missiles, the most dangerous countries are South Korea, Japan, and China!!! Just look at the map. How near North Korea is to Beijing and the Northeastern Industry centers!!!!!!
Mainlanders are not silly enough to provide missle technology to a unstable neighbor!!!
I think more knowledge on mainland from various perspectives will help you a lot.
Apr 25, 2006, 17:19
mingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry G

It is definitely a propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!
If North Korea has missiles, the most dangerous countries are South Korea, Japan, and China!!! Just look at the map. How near North Korea is to Beijing and the Northeastern Industry centers!!!!!!
Mainlanders are not silly enough to provide missle technology to a unstable neighbor!!!
I think more knowledge on mainland from various perspectives will help you a lot.

media: "innocent till proven guilty" does not work on china :blush: general public will just believe what ever they read, After all, there's no need for apology even it's proven to be false (or do we have any way to prove it's false?)..
Apr 25, 2006, 18:10
Index

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry G

It is definitely a propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!
If North Korea has missiles, the most dangerous countries are South Korea, Japan, and China!!!

China and the DPRK are allies. Indeed the PRC is the DPRK's best trading and diplomatic partner, so why wouldn't they swap military technology as well as dual use technology or civilian technology. China needs allies like any other State, and North Korea is a great buffer between China and the US ally ROK. Both the DPRK and PRC have an interest in maintaining close security ties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry G

Just look at the map. How near North Korea is to Beijing and the Northeastern Industry centers!!!!!!

What has distance to do with it. States do not attack other States on the basis of close geographical proximity :banghead:

While we are on the topic of PRC involvement with the DPRK:

Yonhap ("U.S. SHOULD PROBE CHINA'S LINK TO N.K. COUNTERFEITING: SCHOLAR", 2006-04-24) reported that the PRC is most likely complicit in the DPRK’s counterfeiting operation, and the US should seriously investigate the link, a scholar at a conservative Washington think tank claimed Monday. John Tkacik, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, said in a research paper dated April 20 that the ease with which the DPRK moved financial accounts to PRC banks after punitive US actions -- and the PRC connection of a man indicted for circulating DPRK-made bogus bills -- indicate the PRC’s involvement.
Apr 26, 2006, 09:34
bossel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index

China and the DPRK are allies. Indeed the PRC is the DPRK's best trading and diplomatic partner, so why wouldn't they swap military technology as well as dual use technology or civilian technology.

Because they don't trust in the sanity of this great leader in NK.

Quote:

a scholar at a conservative Washington think tank claimed Monday.

No reason to worry, then.
Apr 26, 2006, 17:02
Index

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossel

Because they don't trust in the sanity of this great leader in NK.

There is technology and there is TECHNOLOGY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossel

No reason to worry, then.

Ha ha but it must be right if Washington says so. :nuts: At least its not the Project for the New American Century (or is it??)

Here's another side of the coin:

Reuters ("NORTH KOREA SAYS HAS "SHOCKING EVIDENCE" OF US PLOT", 2006-04-20) reported that the DPRK has charged the US with counterfeiting its own currency and shifting the blame to Pyongyang. A spokesman for the Ministry of People's Security said in a statement the DPRK had obtained "shocking evidence" Washington and Tokyo are producing false material that gives the impression Pyongyang is a criminal state, the DPRK’s KCNA news agency said late Wednesday. "The CIA secretly enlist(s) experts on counterfeiting notes claimed to be the 'most sophisticated in the world' and invite(s) them to issue lots of fake currencies at 'counterfeit notes printing houses of North Korean-style' operating in U.S. military bases in different parts of the world," the spokesman said.
Apr 26, 2006, 21:41
mingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index

There is technology and there is TECHNOLOGY.
Ha ha but it must be right if Washington says so. :nuts: At least its not the Project for the New American Century (or is it??)
Here's another side of the coin:
Reuters ("NORTH KOREA SAYS HAS "SHOCKING EVIDENCE" OF US PLOT", 2006-04-20) reported that the DPRK has charged the US with counterfeiting its own currency and shifting the blame to Pyongyang. A spokesman for the Ministry of People's Security said in a statement the DPRK had obtained "shocking evidence" Washington and Tokyo are producing false material that gives the impression Pyongyang is a criminal state, the DPRK’s KCNA news agency said late Wednesday. "The CIA secretly enlist(s) experts on counterfeiting notes claimed to be the 'most sophisticated in the world' and invite(s) them to issue lots of fake currencies at 'counterfeit notes printing houses of North Korean-style' operating in U.S. military bases in different parts of the world," the spokesman said.

reuters are also the one got horrible chinese translator and publish news without checking it
the march 8th case is a great example, March 8th was women's day, so this two blogger "milk pig" ""massage cream" decided to close it down for one day for obvious reason. what reason? you can't tell from english, but if u can read chinese, it become quite obvious, both blog's name contain the word "breast", use such name might be offensive to women, so for women's day...hehe
Reuter didn't even mention that, or do they really know this fact? prob not..
they rushed to publish the news said it's blocked, but found it back on the day after..:blush:
I guess it's very hard for Reuters to admit its own mistakes.. hehe
http://go.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle....k/internetNews
http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html

"innocent till proven guilty" really does not work on news about china :blush:
Apr 26, 2006, 22:22
Index

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingo

reuters are also the one got horrible chinese translator and publish news without checking it [...] decided to close it down for one day for obvious reason. what reason? you can't tell from english, but if u can read chinese, it become quite obvious, both blog's name contain the word "breast", [...] Reuter didn't even mention that, or do they really know this fact? prob not..they rushed to publish the news said it's blocked, but found it back on the day after..

I don't see your point. Even if Reuters were not aware of the reasons why the blog was shut down, the point of the article is that it was shutdown. The reasons were not the issue, so Reuters did not go into them. I don't think shutting down a blog for containing the word "breast" is justified anyway. Not exactly freedom of expression. If you think that is offensive you are either really naive or too willing to believe the censors.
Apr 28, 2006, 06:28
mingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index

I don't see your point. Even if Reuters were not aware of the reasons why the blog was shut down, the point of the article is that it was shutdown. The reasons were not the issue, so Reuters did not go into them. I don't think shutting down a blog for containing the word "breast" is justified anyway. Not exactly freedom of expression. If you think that is offensive you are either really naive or too willing to believe the censors.

it was not shutdown by the government, but the owner closed it for a day... that's a big difference..
just like the government restrict you walk out the house vs you own decistion to stay at the house for a day.
I am not saying chinese government didn't do bad things, but we can't accuse them for things they didn't do. and also, u might understand that the western media no different from chinese ones, news are censored, not neccessary the government, but the favor of its reader. A right-wing leaning paper won't publish a left leaning report to piss off it's reader.. just like the story " 50 steps laugh at 100 steps".. (during a battle, the losing side of soldier are running, some stop at 50 steps, some stop at 100 step, do the 50-steper loser have the right to laugh at 100-stepper loser?"). what really matters is the faith of media(not neccessary involve religion) , unfortunately, keep the faith prob means report the truth, and admiting mistakes.. it takes a man to admit a mistake, I am wondering how many man is needed in order to face the truth ..hehe.:relief:
Apr 28, 2006, 06:43
godppgo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingo

it was not shutdown by the government, but the owner closed it for a day... that's a big difference..
just like the government restrict you walk out the house vs you own decistion to stay at the house for a day.
I am not saying chinese government didn't do bad things, but we can't accuse them for things they didn't do. and also, u might understand that the western media no different from chinese ones, news are censored, not neccessary the government, but the favor of its reader. A right-wing leaning paper won't publish a left leaning report to piss off it's reader.. just like the story " 50 steps laugh at 100 steps".. (during a battle, the losing side of soldier are running, some stop at 50 steps, some stop at 100 step, do the 50-steper loser have the right to laugh at 100-stepper loser?"). what really matters is the faith of media(not neccessary involve religion) , unfortunately, keep the faith prob means report the truth, and admiting mistakes.. it takes a man to admit a mistake, I am wondering how many man is needed in order to face the truth ..hehe.:relief:

My friend, you're missing the point. It's all about having a choice. Western media provide choices for their reader. Chinese media provides no alternative to the CCP propoganda.
Apr 28, 2006, 07:43
mingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by godppgo

My friend, you're missing the point. It's all about having a choice. Western media provide choices for their reader. Chinese media provides no alternative to the CCP propoganda.

:blush: when the choice become a blaming game ...hehe
which other nation have propoganda? name it..
china.. cuba, Iran, US..and :relief: or should I just ask which nation don't have propoganda?
don't fell into the self righteous trap just because you have choice, be reasonable and logical might help you, but I can't grantee anything either hehe..:p
Apr 28, 2006, 17:12
Index

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingo

don't fell into the self righteous trap just because you have choice

There is a choice though. Aside from Reuters there are other news agencies available (for example) in English such as Associated Press or AFP (see www.news.yahoo.com). Aljazeera is another one (http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage), or all the other coutless sources (including non-English) available. If you wanted to you could get a decent picture of what was going on.

Now in regard to the original Reuters article, it states that "because of unavoidable reasons known to all, this blog is now temporarily closed". You can therefore arguably understand why Reuters concluded that the blog had been forcibly shut down, especially in light of other documented cases of government censure in the PRC. Moreover, the blog writer, when questioned by Reuters, gave strange and inconsistent answers such as:

1. "I really don't want to talk about it. How do I explain this? After Western media report what I say, it will not be the same as what I actually said",

2. "When I feel the time is suitable, I will speak up"

3. "We tried the prank to test how foreign media would react"

4. "I like telling jokes, but this really wasn't a joke and it wasn't meant to deceive everyone"

So on the surface it would seem like there are two plausible scenarios. One is that the PRC did indeed shut down the blog but then allowed it to open the next day following international attention and criticism. This might explain some of Mr. Wang's statements such as nm. 2 (above) or perhaps even nm. 1.

Alternatively, Mr. Wang did indeed shut his own blog down as a hoax. In this case, I think you should be criticising him for introducing uncertainty and confusion into the West's perception of the PRC, rather than Reuters who reacted and investigated what was seemingly a case of State internet censure.
Apr 28, 2006, 19:22
mingo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index

There is a choice though. Aside from Reuters there are other news agencies available (for example) in English such as Associated Press or AFP (see www.news.yahoo.com). Aljazeera is another one (http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage), or all the other coutless sources (including non-English) available. If you wanted to you could get a decent picture of what was going on.
Now in regard to the original Reuters article, it states that "because of unavoidable reasons known to all, this blog is now temporarily closed". You can therefore arguably understand why Reuters concluded that the blog had been forcibly shut down, especially in light of other documented cases of government censure in the PRC. Moreover, the blog writer, when questioned by Reuters, gave strange and inconsistent answers such as:
1. "I really don't want to talk about it. How do I explain this? After Western media report what I say, it will not be the same as what I actually said",
2. "When I feel the time is suitable, I will speak up"
3. "We tried the prank to test how foreign media would react"
4. "I like telling jokes, but this really wasn't a joke and it wasn't meant to deceive everyone"
So on the surface it would seem like there are two plausible scenarios. One is that the PRC did indeed shut down the blog but then allowed it to open the next day following international attention and criticism. This might explain some of Mr. Wang's statements such as nm. 2 (above) or perhaps even nm. 1.
Alternatively, Mr. Wang did indeed shut his own blog down as a hoax. In this case, I think you should be criticising him for introducing uncertainty and confusion into the West's perception of the PRC, rather than Reuters who reacted and investigated what was seemingly a case of State internet censure.

there are many alternative choice in china too, u don't need to listen (and you won't) to what the state media said, there are news website all over the net, even if it's blocked, then you will learn how to use a proxy server.. it's also considered as "choice", only available the the one who really want it..hehe
and about the blog, it will make so much sense if u can read chinese, western media just can't take a joke, and still wondering after it was explained. just like ur response, what other bases do u have other than the links I gave u... what is really need in order for u to believe the explanation of the blogger, if u can even trust what he said, what make reuters or others more trustworthy while they are not even involved. An investigation may help, but do they investigate?
as I said, "innocent till proven guilty", and don't blame others.. spread disbelief between people will only cause conflicts and eventual building the tension neccessary for war and death.
if u kept think "I don't believe in this guy, there must be something going on." then you will never make friend with him, and will never know what exactly happened.
Apr 28, 2006, 21:03
Index

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingo

what is really need in order for u to believe the explanation of the blogger, if u can even trust what he said, what make reuters or others more trustworthy while they are not even involved [...] if u kept think "I don't believe in this guy, there must be something going on." then you will never make friend with him, and will never know what exactly happened.

I already mentioned this in my earlier post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index

Alternatively, Mr. Wang did indeed shut his own blog down as a hoax. In this case, I think you should be criticising him for introducing uncertainty and confusion into the West's perception of the PRC, rather than Reuters who reacted and investigated what was seemingly a case of State internet censure.
Apr 4, 2007, 17:36
cnchance

为什么美国可以提供武器给日本和台湾，中国不能提供武器给朝鲜？