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View Full Version : For or against the "gaikokujin tourokusho" ?



Maciamo
Jan 22, 2004, 11:59
Easy question, just to get an idea of how other foreigners in Japan feel abbout it : Are you for or against the "gaikokujin tourokusho" (alien registration card) that all foreigners have to carry if they stay more than 3 months in Japan ?

Some have criticised it as a form of discrimination, even comparing it to the Nazi system with the Jews. I guess that was especially when people had to have their fingerprints on it, but I have never known this system.

Personally, I see more advantages than inconvenients. It makes it easier to prove one's status, to get official documents or to open a bank account. Japanese tend to be in trouble when asked for official identification to open a bank account, get a video club member's card or apply for a job. As they don't have any identity cards, and most leave their passport at home, they have to get some kind of other official paper, such as insurance payments or family register, but those don't have pictures, so are less reliable and don't always work. But that's quite a hassle as one doesn't normally carry that kind of documents with them. With the gaikokujin tourokusho, no need to keep one's passport in the wallet, nor any other cumbersome documents. Just a little card. I can't think of any drawbacks either...

Ghost
Jan 22, 2004, 12:11
Not sure, never been though that sorta thing......yet.

Iron Chef
Jan 22, 2004, 15:09
I'm all for it. I found it to be quite handy whenever I needed to do anything requiring me to sign up for any sort of membership (video or karaoke clubs for instance). Wasn't too keen on the fingerprinting at the time (which thankfully is no longer done) but all in all I thought it was convenient to have.

Btw, in case anyone doesn't know what they look like, below is an example (all personal info distorted naturally) taken from someone's weblog I found while doing a search for an example to post. (http://www.blogd.com/archives/000142.html)

Erik
Jan 22, 2004, 15:16
Yeah, it's a handy piece of photo ID... They should do something similar in every country... Fits in the wallet nicely... rather carry this than a passport.

jeisan
Jan 22, 2004, 15:32
wouldnt bother me any. youre required to carry photo ID if youre over 18 in the states, a drivers license suffices. which they take your thumbprints for, even if youre renewing or changing address, well in texas anyway.
makes me wonder, dont the japanese have drivers licenses? or are they just different than the ones here?

Maciamo
Jan 22, 2004, 19:14
Originally posted by jeisan

makes me wonder, dont the japanese have drivers licenses? or are they just different than the ones here?

Well, not everybody has a driver's licence. Having a car is almost unnecessary in a city like Tokyo (where almost 1/4 of all Japanese live). I personally don't see the need for one. Once you know you have to pay for a permanent parking space about 300US$/month (as very few houses have garages, and no garden at all in central Tokyo) and it cost about 1000US$ to actually get the driver's licence, and you have to renew it (and pay a few hundred US$) every few years, it is really not surprising that less Japanese have driver's licence than in Western countries (especially in such a vast country as the USA, where people can drive as early as 14, while it's 18 in Japan and Europe).

But which countries really have proper ID cards ? In Europe, Austria, Finland, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Sweden have made ID cards voluntary; Belgium, Germany, Greece and Spain require citizens to carry the ID with them at all times. The UK doesn't have any, but is planning to introduce them. Ireland, Denmark, Japan, the US and I believe Canada & Australia don't have any. What about other countries ?

lineartube
Jan 22, 2004, 19:27
It's weird reading about a comparison of a national ID card to part of a Nazi system. It's not the firts time I stumble upon it, but I also don't know if it is a history myth or not...

Anyway, I can say that in Portugal, every citizen as an ID card and I haven't a problem with it... despite having a finger print of mine in it. I never thought much of the ID card system, because it's been institutionalized for years in Portugal and it's quite handy when you have to show a proof of identity. Passports and drivers licenses are not an option here, because you first need an ID card to get those, but they can also work as a proof of identification since they are oficial papers and carry at least, a photography.

If the Japanese want to innovate, why not a RFID tag planted under the skin? :D

jeisan
Jan 22, 2004, 19:29
the US is a bit tricky on this, while i dont think the nation as a whole requires ID, but most if not all of the states require persons over 18, 16 in some, to carry a valid state issued or military ID card. they can actually fine you for not having it. a drivers license covers the state issed ID as the 2 or hardly different besides the words at the top, hell you have to get the ID at the department of motor vehichles anyway lol

mad pierrot
Jan 22, 2004, 20:53
I like it. In fact, I like it so much I have 2.
(Thought I lost the first, got another, then found the old one.)

At least it's fun to show folks back home!

:p

neko_girl22
Jan 22, 2004, 22:27
I have no problem with it and yep it was convenient when I signed up at a new video store last week.
Although, the card is in my maiden name (because my passport is) which caused some confusion when I signed the form with my Japanese name :p

neko_girl22
Jan 22, 2004, 22:28
p.s do you get in a heap of trouble if you are found not carrying it? It's in my wallet so it's with me nearly all the time, but sometimes I might go out and forget it .........

Elgin
Jan 22, 2004, 23:18
Well in Canada you have a health card, you need it to get medication and a trip to the doctors, etc. It has your picture and alot of info on you so you can use it as a ID. But many places don't accept it as a ID, like for buying smokes lol well it is a health card.

Uncle Frank
Jan 23, 2004, 00:28
We all have those litte chips like they put in annimals. It will have our life history and every little detail of our life. There will be scanners everywhere to track us. Law enforcement agencies will all have little TV type scanners they just hold next to us so they can read it. They just have to figure out where to implant it so it can't be tampered with; like deep in our brain where tampering with it would kill you. Then they have to figure a way to up-date it without the possibility of it being altered by non-governmental officials. WOW, sounds so parinoid !!

Frank

:p

lineartube
Jan 23, 2004, 01:43
I don't know, but... a system that would allowed me not to carry a bulky wallet filled with an ID card, credit and debit cards, video cards and so on, wouldn't probably be so bad if it was in the shape of some sort of RFID tag.

Then again, the aliens would only need to home in their death lazers at our unique RFIDs and we wouldn't be able to hide.... though decision...

:D

It comes down to the level of trust you put on your government, whichever nation you belong to, and I've never seen a degree of trust toward a government body that would make anyone get tagged like animals. Well, maybe in totalitarian states, where your opinion as the common citizen doesn't amount to anything..

Maciamo
Jan 23, 2004, 12:18
Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

Hachiko
Jan 23, 2004, 12:21
IMHO, if the gaijin need this, EVERYONE in Japan (native/naturalized citizens included) needs it. It's only fair. :note: :bow: :cool:

Kiyotsuki
Jan 23, 2004, 12:41
That is true.
Seeing what everyone else says, I guess I would find it convenient as well. Of course, I don't mind having to do anything unless it's totally unreasonable.

I've noticed Japanese government is in EXTREME control of their gaijin population.
What are the citizenship laws of Japan?

Ewok85
Jan 23, 2004, 12:59
I think its a good idea, I cant use my drivers liscence for everything (has the aussie address, not japanese). But then again i didnt have a card :blush:

Erik
Jan 23, 2004, 15:22
Originally posted by Luc
Well in Canada you have a health card, you need it to get medication and a trip to the doctors, etc. It has your picture and alot of info on you so you can use it as a ID. But many places don't accept it as a ID, like for buying smokes lol well it is a health card.

Not every province has a picture on the health card. I'm assuming your from ontario... When I was living in ontario, I had a picture ID health card... but in BC the card has no picture.

Erik
Jan 23, 2004, 15:28
Originally posted by Maciamo
Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

I guess this really depends on the country, but Canada and the US would have a harder time doing something like this as each province/state acts independently issuing their own DL, Healthcards, birth certificates. I agree with you that it is technically possible, but that would be just plain and simply too convienent for those governments.

Ahazmaksya
Jan 23, 2004, 16:55
Originally posted by Hachiko
IMHO, if the gaijin need this, EVERYONE in Japan (native/naturalized citizens included) needs it. It's only fair. :note: :bow: :cool:

*Agrees*. Foreigners should just be able to use the same identifcation as the Japanese use, there is no need to be singled out

Keeni84
Jan 24, 2004, 05:00
In America, if a police officer asks for your ID and you don't have one, and he suspects you being over the age of 18 (or sometimes 16) she can take you down to the station.

I personally don't see anything wrong with an ID card, just as long as people don't get crazy with it, and ask me to show my ID everywhere I go or every time I'm peacefully walking down the street.

ID cards are only harmful if they are used in malice.

Golgo_13
Jan 24, 2004, 05:34
If you're not in Japan to do anything illegal, why would it bother you?

Mandylion
Jan 26, 2004, 09:50
I have had experience with the fingerprint version of the card. I think this was back in ' 97. But I was only a kid and didn't care.

I don't mind them now either, but I do not think they should take the place of other forms of official id if you have them (like a Japanese drivers license. I had to show them my card to apply for a license, so having a drivers license implies a torokusho). When it comes to things like video store memberships, point cards, and all that stuff, my Japanee drivers license has been accepted.

The only people I am truly comfortable with knowing all the stuff that is on that card are government officials. I can make exceptions though. However, it is really not anyone elses business knowing what I do for a living, who employs me, how long I have been in Japan, my home address and where I was born unless I choose to tell them.


Originally posted by Golgo_13
If you're not in Japan to do anything illegal, why would it bother you?

For the same reason that other honest peoople in principle would object to someone listening to their phone calls, reading their e-mail, or going through their mail. Torokusho are no where near as invasive, but that doesn't matter to some people (I'm not "some people" just telling you what I have heard).

Feral-Darkness
Jan 27, 2004, 03:12
"If you're not in Japan to do anything illegal, why would it bother you?"

For the same reasons america has all the privacy laws it does.
Once you open the door lawyers will flood it with exploits and loop holes to get information on any one.

Any ways, I do not like the ID of me haveing to have ID and others not but I wouldn't make a big fight about it. I carry id around all the time any ways. Mostly because I am a donor and if I die I want them to know.

Golgo_13
Jan 27, 2004, 13:30
The hijackers of the 9/11 attacks had gotten into the U.S. on student visas, and they disappeared. Had there been closer tabs kept on foreign students, the situation might have been different. Americans do not object to such a tighter registrations of non-immigrant aliens in the U.S.

Elgin
Jun 2, 2004, 15:43
If I go to Japan and I stay for 10months, do I need to get this card right when I get off the air plane? Also where do I get this in Kyoto area?

Buddha Smoker
Jun 2, 2004, 15:55
I would think so but to be honest...I'm not really sure. :?

Also, you usually get it from the local city hall where you live.

playaa
Jun 2, 2004, 17:11
It's not a bad thing in my opinion, for identification purposes.. I think everyone in all countries should have to have them.

RockLee
Jun 2, 2004, 17:20
I'm used to having my ID since I was 12 :haihai: so I don't mind... and yeah it's damn handy for gaijin :-)

playaa
Jun 2, 2004, 19:43
I would much rather carry an ID card around rather then a passport book. ;)

Buddha Smoker
Jun 2, 2004, 20:10
It's nice to have sometimes and really convient and yes, it's alot better than a carrying a passport all the time.

Maciamo
Jun 2, 2004, 21:31
I'm used to having my ID since I was 12 :haihai:

Being Belgian is quite a gap to being American or Japanese regarding legal rights and obligations.

In Belgium, people are required by law to carry ID cards at all time (except foreigners - that is the opposite of Japan).

Furthermore, most people also have a credit or debit card since they are teenagers (from 12 years old), while I think Japanese have to be 18 or 20 (?).

In addition, people must vote at the election, which is why Belgium is one of the few developed countries to have a turnout close to 100%.

Finally,Belgium is also of of the few countries in the world where there is no minimum legal age for drinking or smoking, which contrast very much the law in Japan (20) and the US (21 to 25 ?).

In short, Belgians have more freedom for drinking, smoking and using debit cards, but must carry ID cards and vote at elections. I think it is a good system and should be the same everywhere - except that I would make the ID cards optional instead of compulsory.

Buddha Smoker
Jun 2, 2004, 21:55
Being Belgian is quite a gap to being American or Japanese regarding legal rights and obligations.

In Belgium, people are required by law to carry ID cards at all time (except foreigners - that is the opposite of Japan).


At what age, do they have to start carrying the ID card? Since birth or a certain age, etc..? Also, the voting starts from what age?

RockLee
Jun 2, 2004, 22:00
I think it should be better if the limit for drinking and smoking is at 18 because kids are TOO young for smoking and drinking....and I think in JP that system is better...as for the rest....I still want to live in JP :D


@buddha : from age 12...and voting from 18 years :p

Buddha Smoker
Jun 2, 2004, 22:04
I think it should be better if the limit for drinking and smoking is TOO young....and I think in JP that system is better...as for the rest....I still want to live in JP :D


@buddha : from age 12...and voting from 18 years :p

Thanks, chummer. I think being made to vote is pretty harsh.

Golgo_13
Jun 3, 2004, 04:09
Why would anyone be AGAINST this? Unless they plan to commit crime in Japan.

I was in Japan for only 10 days last month as a tourist but I filled one out on the plane before it landed in Japan. It didn't seem to violate any of my rights.

Buddha Smoker
Jun 3, 2004, 06:43
Why would anyone be AGAINST this? Unless they plan to commit crime in Japan.

I was in Japan for only 10 days last month as a tourist but I filled one out on the plane before it landed in Japan. It didn't seem to violate any of my rights.

Everybody is talking about the Japanese Registration card for foreigners that live in Japan. I think you might be confused with the customs form...

But you first two statements fit perfect :wave:

Lina Inverse
Jun 3, 2004, 08:03
Not sure... over here it's quite common to have your passport with you (or at least your passport), so that wouldn't bother me.
What would bother me though is being singled out :relief:

Buddha Smoker
Jun 3, 2004, 08:25
Not sure... over here it's quite common to have your passport with you (or at least your passport), so that wouldn't bother me.
What would bother me though is being singled out :relief:

But the "gaikokujin tourokusho" is lot easier to carry than a passport. It's like credit card size so it fits nice into the wallet.

Riven
Jun 5, 2004, 01:37
Well, France doesn't have as much freedom as Belgium in theory, but here, kids can get drinking and smoking at any age.
Even if French ID cards are a little big, they are smaller then passport. As I always had one, since I was baby, I really wouldn't mind of having one in Japan. I think that every one should have one in Japan (natives and aliens). We also have health card that is used as a credit card, but it is not to pay, it is to be payed back.
Not to have a huge wallet, many people have a little booklet with only cards, very easy to carry.

Buddha Smoker
Jun 5, 2004, 17:49
Well, France doesn't have as much freedom as Belgium in theory, but here, kids can get drinking and smoking at any age.
Even if French ID cards are a little big, they are smaller then passport. As I always had one, since I was baby, I really wouldn't mind of having one in Japan. I think that every one should have one in Japan (natives and aliens). We also have health card that is used as a credit card, but it is not to pay, it is to be payed back.
Not to have a huge wallet, many people have a little booklet with only cards, very easy to carry.


I think it is slowly changing that way here...some insurances places are switching to cards instead of the books...about the same size of the Alien Card.

Lina Inverse
Jun 5, 2004, 22:29
But the "gaikokujin tourokusho" is lot easier to carry than a passport. It's like credit card size so it fits nice into the wallet.
I don't know what sort of passports you have, but ours are quite handy. This is what they look like:

Front side (about original size)
http://www.bundesdruckerei.de/pics/4_presse/fotoarchiv/personal_downloads/pa.jpg
of course without "Muster" (sample) written over it

Back side (http://www.bblw.de/Home/Perso2.htm)

Travel passport (back above, front below)
http://www.bundesdruckerei.de/pics/4_presse/fotoarchiv/personal_downloads/vorlauf_pic.jpg

More info about the passport (http://www.bundesdruckerei.de/en/products/index.html) (security features etc.)

Chipi
Jun 6, 2004, 23:06
Im getting mine at the end of this month, so I dont have any experiences with using it yet...if though, that means I dont have to carry my passport with me all the time then yes, I really do support the card. Also because my passport is allready 6 years old so it has a terrible picture of me as a teenager :)
I do have one question though...if I have to prove my age (Im 23m,but people often think im 19 or 20 at most), is the alien reg. card enough?

Luc - I got mine from this office..or I will get it. This nice man (like my japanese uncle allready or something) took me there by car so I dont know the address now, but I can ask, or wait until I get my card and then send you the address. It might be though, that you should go to another office - it depends on where you live I think...maybe someone else knows better? (I live near Saiin in Kyoto)

When you go to the office in the first time, you fill out this form (just your name, etc), and give 2 passport pictures. Then they will give you this paper what shows you when you can go and get the card . (at least for me its during one exact week).

BlogD
Jun 7, 2004, 02:07
If I go to Japan and I stay for 10months, do I need to get this card right when I get off the air plane? Also where do I get this in Kyoto area?
You have to have one if you are staying for more than 90 days (the length of a tourist visa). You get one by going to the ward/city hall (kuyakusho/shiyakusho) where you live and apply for one. There's usually a special counter for it. When you leave Japan, you have to present it to the immigration officer (they will also demand it if you want to re-enter but forgot to get a re-entry permit).


It's nice to have sometimes and really convient and yes, it's alot better than a carrying a passport all the time.
It used to be a booklet, too big to stuff into a standard wallet. It changed into a card some time ago.


In addition, people must vote at the election ... Finally,Belgium is also of of the few countries in the world where there is no minimum legal age for drinking or smoking, which contrast very much the law in Japan (20) and the US (21 to 25 ?).The U.S. is 21 (National Minimum Purchase Age Act of 1984), but sellers are required to check IDs of anyone up to, what, 27 or 31 or something. And BTW, what happens if you don't vote in Belgium?


I think it is slowly changing that way here...some insurances places are switching to cards instead of the books...about the same size of the Alien Card.
Man, I hope so, at least with the National Insurance (kokumin hoken). It is way too big to carry around in your wallet--and WAY too dangerous to carry in a place it might fall from or get lost. Did you know that if someone gets that thing, they can use it for identity theft and you can be most thoroughly cleaned out?


I do have one question though...if I have to prove my age (Im 23m,but people often think im 19 or 20 at most), is the alien reg. card enough?
I'm pretty sure that would be a "yes." The gaijin card is an official ID, and if you don't have a drivers license, then that would be the document you would carry, as a foreigner.

Are you asking in regards to buying alcohol? Never heard of anyone carded for that here in Japan. I once saw a 10-year-old kid buy beer, and though it was most likely for his dad and probably the shopkeeper knew the family, it still would never happen in the U.S. ...

Buddha Smoker
Jun 7, 2004, 07:08
Man, I hope so, at least with the National Insurance (kokumin hoken). It is way too big to carry around in your wallet--and WAY too dangerous to carry in a place it might fall from or get lost. Did you know that if someone gets that thing, they can use it for identity theft and you can be most thoroughly cleaned out?

My wife and kid's insurance that they get from her company changed to the card as of April 1. All places were suppose to change but you know how that is...things take time. I have the Kokumin hoken too and I still have the paper booklet too but I heard that it might change next month or so to the card size one.

LOL...yeah, I've heard a few stories about stolen identity but never experienced it first hand. :D

Faustianideals
Jul 17, 2004, 12:49
I like the idea of the card.

Kama
Jul 18, 2004, 15:17
BE WARNED: it's a long boring post about Polish system... :D


In Poland we have ID cards from childhood. You get your first, when you enter elementary school, and when you change schools, you get another one. On the School ID you have your photo, birthdate, address of school and home addres. You have to carry it around you mostly if you go to school by bus (we have half-fares for pupils and students) or sometimes all the time, if there is a bodyguard in the school, he may ask you to show ID that you are from this school. I carry my student ID all the time with me, as i go by bus to the university.

Next one is adult's ID card. You have to get it if you are 18 years old Polish citizen. They might ask you to show iot while buying alcohol/cigarettes if you don't look 18 or over. They usually want this ID while opening a bank account or fill in some other documents/applications. Now there are credit-card like IDs (which I really don't like it, since I'm not taking my adult's ID card with me almost never, and it's laying somewhere in my room - try to find it if it's small... XD) - a new ones - and old ones: booklets. There you have your PESEL number (if you were born in Poland, you HAVE one - the format is like this: 55120100220 [the person was born 01.12.1951 and is a girl] - this 7 numbers are from my PESEL. Numbers 7-10 shows sex (the last one counts). Even are for girls, odd are for boys. The last one is control number.) Of course there is home address. In the booklet, you have also stamps from work to certify that you are working. In the credit-card there isn't [at last it's not written, maybe it's coded, but I don't think so].

Driver's license can certify your identity (since you have photo there), but nothing else. If you are driving car you have to have driver's license AND ID card. Now the driving license is alco credit-card like, but since they did license and ID cardds some years have passed, it's not combined. [I don't think it will be combined soon]. Ah, our health books are only used in hospitals, it isn't used to identify person. In some places there can ask you to bring TWO documents with your photo. Dunno why.

The foreingers don't have to carry passport all the time, althought it would be handy and let him avoid any problems with police etc. If they want to have half-fares, they have to carry ISIC (?) card.

So I wouldn't bother to have registration card in Japan unless I wouldn't be a person of the second-category by having it. I wouldn't like to have my fingertip on my ID - I'm not a criminal!!

TwistedMac
Jul 18, 2004, 20:58
mark me up for one of those cards! i love being special and anything i can get to prove i am i want XD

Mike Cash
Jan 9, 2005, 12:09
*Agrees*. Foreigners should just be able to use the same identifcation as the Japanese use, there is no need to be singled out

Foreigners can use the same identification the Japanese do. The gaijin card isn't meant to be some all-purpose identification card. When I am asked for identificiation, I normally use my driver's license.

TwistedMac
Jan 9, 2005, 16:10
Can't belive I haven't seen this part of this thread before...

Iron Chef's piccy!

http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1380

It's PINK! How can you not love a pink ID card?!

PopCulturePooka
Jan 9, 2005, 19:57
What I dont like about it is what it represents.
That we are not 'japanese' and that police have the power to stop and ask to see the card without much justification, which is something that Japanese themselves are exempt from. That not having it on you can lead to trouble (once or twice I've left my wallet at home and felt like some wanted criminal).

Either way I'm not giving it back when I leave next month. MWAHAHAHAHA

Ewok85
Jan 9, 2005, 21:01
I didnt get one during my year in Japan. I moved around at the 3month point and it made things interesting, in the end I was sick of the usual japanese buearacracy crap and just didn't get one. The guy at the airport gave me a nasty look when he noticed I hadn't applied for one, I just shrugged and he let me go.

King of Tokyo
Jan 9, 2005, 21:28
Can't belive I haven't seen this part of this thread before...

Iron Chef's piccy!

http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1380

It's PINK! How can you not love a pink ID card?!

Heh. Agreed. I've been known to be a fan of the pink.

DoctorP
Jan 9, 2005, 21:32
Can't belive I haven't seen this part of this thread before...

Iron Chef's piccy!

http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1380

It's PINK! How can you not love a pink ID card?!


Mac...you look a little fuzzy...were you feeling bad on the day of your photo? :p

okaeri_man
Jan 10, 2005, 16:42
But which countries really have proper ID cards ?... Ireland, Denmark, Japan, the US and I believe Canada & Australia don't have any. What about other countries?
woah woah woah, back up a bit. australia isn't living in the stone ages here. a driver's licence suffices for everything, and everybody keeps it in their wallet all the time. people can get their L's from the age of 16, so most people over 16 have a valid ID. if however you don't want to drive, you can get a proof of age card to certify you are over 18, which also suffices for everything. no worries, no fuss.

i think the gaikokujin tourokusho is unnecessary and would agree it is a form of discrimination.

Rio Lee
Jan 10, 2005, 18:37
Instead of chips implanted in the skin, why not just have a single personal card that act as ID/passport, healtyh care, credit/debit card, and could be used for any club membership too. Actually it's not so difficult technically. I already have a international debit card that can be used as telephone card, and the EU is going to impose a EU-wide health card (that some countries already have, as I do), with a chip that is only readable by special machines that each hospital, pharmacy or doctor should have. So instead of carrying loads of insurance papers, vaccination card, medical history, etc., everything is on the card. It's safer than papers as nobody can read them without the machine.
I heard that in some countries like Switzerland, they already have card-like passport, where all the visas and "stamps" are added electronically (but not all customs are equipped to read them !).
That wouldn't e too difficult to combine all of these in a single card. Then all shops and clubs should be equipped with a machine that allow them to add/edit their own memberships, without having access to other data (with password system or something).

My country is currently trying to implement this. The goverment is forcing everyone to get this new Smarcard IDCard by december 2005. Before it was like the gaijin card with the fingerprints. I heard that card can be used as a ID Card, ATM/Credit card, health card, passport and etc. But I think this kind of card will cause much more worst things if someone able to fraud it, compared to the normal ID card with the fingerprints.

Rukasu
Jan 11, 2005, 04:34
Since 1 january we dutch people, have to carry an ID Card around.
If you don't have it, when the police asks for it, they can give you a €50 fine (about 65 dollars)
I hate things like that because I tend to forget a lot.
And it isn't a small price

w1ngzer0
Sep 10, 2007, 14:22
Easy question, just to get an idea of how other foreigners in Japan feel abbout it : Are you for or against the "gaikokujin tourokusho" (alien registration card) that all foreigners have to carry if they stay more than 3 months in Japan ?
Some have criticised it as a form of discrimination, even comparing it to the Nazi system with the Jews. I guess that was especially when people had to have their fingerprints on it, but I have never known this system.
Personally, I see more advantages than inconvenients. It makes it easier to prove one's status, to get official documents or to open a bank account. Japanese tend to be in trouble when asked for official identification to open a bank account, get a video club member's card or apply for a job. As they don't have any identity cards, and most leave their passport at home, they have to get some kind of other official paper, such as insurance payments or family register, but those don't have pictures, so are less reliable and don't always work. But that's quite a hassle as one doesn't normally carry that kind of documents with them. With the gaikokujin tourokusho, no need to keep one's passport in the wallet, nor any other cumbersome documents. Just a little card. I can't think of any drawbacks either...

Thats silly. How can you compare a green card to the registration of a race? I say go for it. Hell, if it lets me stay in Japan longer then 3 months, then where is the line to sign up for one. :wave:

bakaKanadajin
Sep 11, 2007, 09:42
I did not have time to read through this thread and I apologize in advance. I just wanted to toss my 2yen in here quickly as it seems like a fairly cut and dry subject.

I liked having my Alien card because I was guaranteed entry into bars and clubs, its 'official' ID afterall, and it relieved me of having to carry my passport (a much more important and difficult to replace document) everywhere. I lost my wallet in Roppongi one night and after all the headache of getting things replaced I really appreciated not having lost my passport that night.

As for the idea of being 'marked' or discriminated against.. well you don't need to carry something in your wallet to be discriminated against or to stick out, you're a gaijin!! But, it can't be helped, in many cases its rare and unintentional, so just be patient and set a good example if you're stopped by your local police officer :)