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Maciamo
Jul 21, 2002, 13:43
Just to know everyone's level and who to ask questions to in the Nihongo lounge, I'd like to know what's your level in Japanese.

I have started last year and I am almost conversational. I understand better written Japanese (I love Kanji !!:note: :happy: ).

moyashi
Jul 22, 2002, 20:59
hmmm I failed the Japanese Language Proficency Test 7 years back by 1.5% ... I had a horrible hang over and just cleared managing to keep what was breakfast where it belonged.

hmmm ... I wonder ??? I write horrible but read XXX number of Kanji and speak 100% in Japanese (fluently? no. Understandably? hmm matter of asking my victims )

lollololol where do I fit?

samuraitora
Jul 22, 2002, 21:48
moyashi...I am begining to like you more and more...sounds like me in my senior year trying to take my final exam...lol

deborah gormley
Jul 23, 2002, 00:59
Just greeting for me I'm afraid:bawling: but willing to learn more:note:

moyashi
Jul 23, 2002, 10:04
@samuraitora
oops that was level 2 eh! It was a great way to test my actual level though :)

Thanks!

My friends hated taking me drinking. Especially, after the night I got accepted to uni. I downed half a bottle of Johhny Walker. Passed out on some country road. They put me in the car (don't remember that) I remember hanging out the window and blowing. Next part I remembered was that I couldn't put the key into the house door. Next was my mother dragging me in the house. She didn't mind that evening but I got .... warned pretty heavly too not, reapeat not, do it again.

lolololo, I waited until college to repeat that performance.

samuraitora
Jul 24, 2002, 00:26
@moyahisan
we do have similar pasts...lol

Harvey
Jul 24, 2002, 23:23
4 years high school, 4 years college, 1 year in Japan, in Japan again now, job interviews were in Japanese, working now in Japan for an American company, but, Japanese everywhere.

Fluent? Is anyone?

samuraitora
Jul 31, 2002, 22:12
@ Harvey
I need some more practice to get back my Fluent'ness...lol

@ Moyashi
Where did you go to College?

moyashi
Aug 1, 2002, 09:44
UCSB ... used to be a playboy Top 10 party spot for Halloween. 50,000+ people crammed into 1km of town.

Now, still famous for surfing and Nobel prize winners.

oh well

Scott
Aug 3, 2002, 09:54
I'd say I'm about the level "Know the Kanas but Still Pretty Much a Beginner" on that list. I know how to read/write hiragana and am now working on katakana. I'm learning how to speak as well but haven't been studying too too long yet. I'll gain more experience with time I guess. By the way, where exactly do you go to take Japanese Language Proficency Test? Is it something only available to college students?

miyuki
Aug 3, 2002, 11:03
Informations...
I got these data from the net.
You'd better to ask them about details.

(1) Jitsuyo- Nihongo Kentei(J.Test)

begginners`
cost/ \2,100
Every year/Month 1,4,6,9,11
Sapporo,Sendai,Tokyo,Nagoya,Osaka,Fukuoka etc.,
<Nihongo Kentei Kyokai> ‚”‚…‚Œ F03-3368-8106
e-mai [email protected]

(2)Jyokyu- Nihongo Kentei
J.TEST 850`
cost/\2,300
Every year/ Month 6,11
Sapporo,Sendai,Tokyo,Nagoya,Osaka,Fukuoka etc.,
<Nihongo Kentei Kyokai> ‚”‚…‚Œ F03-3368-8106
e-mai [email protected]

(3)Nihongo No-ryoku shiken
You've studied over 900 hours ...Level 1 class test
over 600 hours ...Level 2
over 300 hours ...Level 3
over 150 hours ...Level 4


cost/\5,200
Application / Aug.9 ` Sep.16
Test / Dec.5
Hokkaido,Tokyo,Kanagawa,Aichi,Kyoto,Osaka,Hyogo,Hi roshima,Fukuoka
You can buy application form at big book shops in your town.
<Nihon Kokusai Kyoiku Kyokai>

(4)Jetro Business Nihongo No-ryoku Test
cost/Level 1...6,500
2...5,500
3...5,500
JOCT(passed Level1)...9,000
Application / Feb 8 ` March 24
<Jetro Tokyo >
‚”‚…‚Œ F03-3587-1143
e-mai [email protected]

Scott
Aug 4, 2002, 00:08
Arigato. So these tests all have to be taken in Japan?

miyuki
Aug 4, 2002, 02:01
Home page URL:<Nihon Kokusai Kyoiku Kyokai>
http://www.aiej.or.jp/examination/jlpt_guide_e.html
They say...Test will be held both in Japan and abroad.

Please send e-mails to each associations on the list or ask book shops or Japanese language schools in your town.

samuraitora
Aug 5, 2002, 23:39
@ Scott
Some of the major cities here in the states have the tests too.
I know of 3 Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York...I think there may be a few more.

Scott
Aug 6, 2002, 01:07
Oh, thanks. Do you know if Detroit has one as im about 15 minutes away? I'm not interested in taking it now of course but I think I probably will want to take it in the future.

samuraitora
Aug 6, 2002, 01:53
I remember if Detroit has it or not...Where are you???
I am in Troy.

Scott
Aug 6, 2002, 10:45
I'm in Grosse Ile.

Diana
Aug 9, 2002, 07:42
I think you must know at least 2,000 kanji's to take the Proficiency test. Am I right? I know around 200 now, and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to reach the proficiency level. Good luck to you, Scott! Hiragana and Katakana are easy, but the kanji's are totemo muzukashii.

moyashi
Aug 9, 2002, 09:51
The number depends on the level. About 2000 would put you in the level 2 or 1 categories.

Although, their is also a kanji test in Japan :)

Scott
Aug 9, 2002, 14:32
Whew that's scary! 2000 kanji?!? WOAH! There definetly are that many though. Isn't there a recommended amount that the Japanese should know on to read on a daily basis? Is learning 2000 kanji even possible for a gaijin? Right now that seems like an impossible feat to acomplish. They look so hard to write and intricate compared to the curvy hiragana and straight katakana. Oh well....I'm up for the challenge. :)

moyashi
Aug 9, 2002, 21:16
Kanji are not that hard. If you're really into them get a book on Japanese Calligraphy or penmenship. ONE thing is to really learn the stroke order. You shouldn't cut corners on that.

If you can handle the hiragana and katakana. Kanji is just the next step. Both of the simplier phonetic systems came from kanji characters anyways. So the mechcanics are there. Just time to put the blocks together.

Writing them is one of the funniest parts for me. It's like a high, especially when your kanji looks really good and symetrical.

2000, should be enough.

The Japanese drill them every day which makes it easier for them.

You can do the same or take it easier and learn ones at your own pace and/or in your own order. Order doesn't necessarily have to follow the prescribe one that the Japanese follow.

cheers

samuraitora
Aug 9, 2002, 22:34
what is the perscribed order???

Scott
Aug 10, 2002, 08:09
‚_‚θ‚ͺ‚Ζ‚€‚ΰ‚’‚_‚΅‚³‚ρB That really helped me out alot. I have 2 more questions. I was looking in a book called You Can Write Chinese! and it looked to me like the chinese characters were the same as Japanese Kanji. Is this true? Also, what is the real purpose of Kanji? Why not just write everything in hiragana and katakana?

moyashi
Aug 10, 2002, 10:07
@prescribed order
The Ministry of Education has all the Kanji broken down to what year of school they should be learned in. I think that list is even sometimes at the back of Kanji dictionaries. hmmm, I wonder if it's on the net somewhere?

@kanji
Kanji is originally form China. Japan, I believe never did have an indigenous writting system. So they borrowed the Chineses while they were busy borrowing a bunch of other things.

Japanese Kanji are actually older forms than what China uses today. The Chinese has gone on and simplified many of theirs. Also, of course, some kanji are gonna mean different words. So Japanese "letter" will equal Chinese' "toilet paper" :)

Why not hiragana and katakana. .... ughhhh, too many words sound the same just like in English "pair" and "pear" so you'd have to pay more attention to context and actually it would take more time to read.

Way back when. Woman we're stuck to wrtting only hiragana, and men to kanji or katakana. a Kanji is a symbol and makes picking up the meaning of a sentence much quicker.

yes, learning to read and write is hell, but once you've gotten to a certain stage you are still in hell but that hell has a different feel to it and it's not so bad anymore.

@hiragana
hmmm this board is still having trouble with "a" and "ya"

Scott
Aug 10, 2002, 14:35
Thanks alot, moyashi. With your help this is all slowly starting to make sense. :) I'll be on the lookout for that list.

miyuki
Aug 10, 2002, 19:14
While 6 years, elementary school students learn 1006 kanji.
Lists of 1006 Kanji; http://www.kanabo.net/product/kanji.html

Jyoyo Kanji(1945)
http://kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~yasuoka/kanjibukuro/japan-joyo.html
Moji bake shimasenka ...? I wonder..

I think kanji makes me easier to read newspapers or books faster.
Because kanji has meaning.
When I can't read kanji sound rightly,I can understand the meanings.

Once every newspeper used to add 'yomigana' to every kanji.
It is nice idea,isn't it?
After WW2,such rules had gone.
Because (some says) it took them a lot of troubles.

samuraitora
Aug 12, 2002, 22:03
@ miyukisan
thank you for the lists...

miyuki
Aug 13, 2002, 14:39
Have you seen kanji lists?
too many...

samuraitora
Aug 13, 2002, 22:56
@miyuki
I am putting together a Japan/Japanese site...with the site I have taken the kanji lists and broken them down into 2 lists.

First list breaks down by grade(1st, 2nd, 3rd...) what is a verb, noun, adjective, so on and so forth. I was thinking about breaking down the nouns into different categories like person, animal, place, and other categories like that.

Second list breaks down by proficiency test(4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st) in the same type.

This should make it easier of newbies to learn...it has helped me.

miyuki
Aug 14, 2002, 01:46
@samuraitori-san,
These lists help you?

Members here love to study,I think.
I am very glad if I could help you.
my pleasure desu.

miyuki
Aug 14, 2002, 01:55
Our school board says in 'Gakusyu shido yoryo';
1st grade(13 years old)...to write and use 900 of 1006 kanji
to read 1006 kanji
to read 250-300 of Jyoyo kanji
2nd grade(14 years old)...to write and use 950 of 1006 kanji
(250-300 plus)
to read 300-350 of Jyoyo kanji
3rd grade'15 years old)...to write and use 1006 kanji
to read all of Jyoyo kanji

miyuki
Aug 14, 2002, 01:58
It may be an indication.

samuraitora
Aug 14, 2002, 04:14
wow

deborah gormley
Aug 14, 2002, 09:27
@ miyuki
your school board seems quite tough!! but if thats the way its done , then so be it!! I dont know any kanji yet, it frightens me so much I cant discribe it, but maybe if I was brought up in an enviroment that needed kanji things might be sooo different!!!
I find kanji facinating with its meaning and terms of interpretation, and thats the frightening bit, lol

moyashi
Aug 14, 2002, 11:27
hey debs, but why you read kanji every day ;)

mis-understand-ing .... overly simplified but still. Each part of the word is like a group of strokes in a kanji.

Many kanji like for mountain are even like pictures UU sort of looking thing.

ŽR = mountain ... well it looks like one.
“ϊ = day or sun ... well a box with a line in the middle that represents all the lines that we like to draw around suns.
Œϋ = a square like box which is a mouth
Žθ = if you look long enough you'll see that the 3 lines are fingers, with the vertical line a brush. so this is a character for hand

It's not so difficult. I learned how to write so I'm sure anybody can!

samuraitora
Aug 14, 2002, 22:54
wow moyashisensei...don't give yourself too much credit...lol

moyashi
Aug 15, 2002, 00:06
;)

miyuki
Aug 15, 2002, 01:08
deborah-san,

Japanese students also make strenuous efforts to memorize kanji.
As for me, when I was a student, so did I.
(...because we had exams. hehe)

But now I write all my documents with my computer.
It makes hiragana to kanji automatically.
So when I write kanji on occation, I notice I forget some
of them.

miyuki
Aug 15, 2002, 01:12
onegai
(when my english is bad or wrong, please tell me.)

miyuki
Aug 15, 2002, 02:03
On the other hand....without kanji

I can read books or newspapers exactly and fast because of kanji.
We have many "do on igi go"(words which have the same sounds and different meanings).
For example, "stone" and "will or notion" have the same
sound..."ishi" in Japanese.
I can't tell "stone" from "will" if you write it with hiragana.

samuraitora
Aug 15, 2002, 02:44
@miyukisan
eigo ga ii desu yo. ( I hope I said that right)
Your english is very good.

I am envious wishing my japanese were half as good as your english.

miyuki
Aug 15, 2002, 23:04
samuraitori-san,

arigatougozaimasu. :bow:
From now on,if you find anything about my English,
please tell me.
My English is 'school one'
and depends on my dictionaries. :bluush:

Samuraitori-san,you divided these kanji into some categories...
sugoi desu ne.

samuraitora
Aug 15, 2002, 23:32
@miyuki
'sogoi' wa nihongo de nan desu ka.
what is 'sogou' in japanese.

hopefully I said that right

miyuki
Aug 16, 2002, 00:07
We say "sugoi" when we are wondering or admiring
or amazing something or someone.
For example, when I see the Niagara falls,
I cry,'Sugoi!' (amazing! nice!...I feel.)

When my friend finish very difficult works,
I say to him 'Sugoi ne!' (I admire him.)

When I go outside and find UFO (like 'Independence day')
I may cry,'Sugoi! nani? are? '(nani? are =what is that?)
etc...
We often use 'sugoi'

moyashi
Aug 16, 2002, 01:09
You still can tell from context though.

ie .... gomi wo nageru.

miyuki
Aug 16, 2002, 08:57
gomi wo nageru....?
gomen nasai...
imi ga yoku wakarimasen.

I think I was asked what 'sugoi' meant in Japanese by samuraitori-san.
I misunderstood his question????
I don't know....if so,sorry.
'sugoi' is an adjective(dictionary says)
but we use it like an interjection.

When one passes exam,we admire him 'sugoi!'
"Great!""You did it"
or we use it as "surprise""what a surprise"..etc..
Jisyo no imi to chigaimasu.

I'd like to explain that.
But my examples are not good or I misunderstood his question??
I wonder...........
Sorry.

miyuki
Aug 16, 2002, 09:27
Of course I admire samuraitori-san's work.

My exaples didn't seem so............
really sorry.

moyashi
Aug 16, 2002, 11:53
nooooo, nothing to be sorry about Miyuki!

‚¦H–l‚Μcomment‚ͺˆα‚€thread‚ɏ‘‚’‚½‚Ν‚ΈBBBB

gomi wo nageru.
gomi = garbage/rubish
nageru = throw.

Maybe Nahoko would understand. She's from the Tahoko area.
:)

This phrase is often used in Sapporo and Hokkaido! So it's a dialect phrase.

I wrote in reply to thread that was mentioning hiragana and kanji and how it's difficult to read hiragan while Kanji makes comprhension easier and quicker ... hmmmm.

I wrote this last night while watching WOWOW's (satelite TV) Part 4 of their late night ghost series ...... ewwwwwwww

norowareta ??? was I cursed? ??????

miyuki
Aug 16, 2002, 18:02
I see,moyashi-san.:)

samuraitora
Aug 16, 2002, 20:41
arigato gozaimasu miyukisan. kono wa yuuyou desu.
Thank you very much Miyuki. That was helpful.

Sorry if I use wrong nihongo words. Still learning.

Eirik
Oct 8, 2002, 15:00
Some more about kanji:

Someone already mentioned the kanji one has to long during one's first 6 years in school; but here's a listing of the "jouyou kanji" (daily-use kanji) designated by the government.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/jouyoukanji.html

These are taught during the course of 9 years in Japanese schools
(a total of 1945 characters)

If you're serious about your study of kanji, you should have a look at this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4889960759/qid=1034056348/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/002-3514778-6654407?v=glance&n=507846

it's an approach to learning the kanji different from the traditional one. i'm using it myself. the book seems to be not so very well-known, which is why i thought i'd make people aware of it.
(if you want to know more about the book, read the introduction and costumer reviews at amazon)

lineartube
Nov 4, 2002, 18:28
I only speak a few words and phrases but I would like to learn it.

A couple months back I researched where I could learn japanese here in Portugal and get a certification for it. There a few places that do teach japanese but no one can give me a credible certification. If I remember correctly, I would have to go to Paris to make the exams.

I have also a First Certificate taken some years ago in the British Council. I never took the Proeficiency Test because I got a diploma and I tought I didn't need another despite of only needed to take one more exam. Now that I'm looking for work, I only read about TOEICs and I guess In Japan nobody has ever heard of the British Council... :P

thomas
Nov 5, 2002, 16:55
Uh oh, TOIEC is a holy cow in Japan, lolol, the golden calf...

miki
Nov 6, 2002, 14:01
what is TOIEC??? another certication level?

was browsing the net few weeks back and find this forum quite interesting.. i'm a beginner in japanese (currently take part time japanese course).... hope to learn more about the language & culture & everything else about japan... =)

by the way, i know chinese... will that help in picking up the language? someone told me it'll be easier, but doesn't sound very convicing as i find japanese is rather complicated... especially the particles and grammar bit... :p

miyuki
Nov 7, 2002, 00:12
Hi,lineartube,
Hi,miki,
Nice to meet you!

You mean TOEIC(the Test of English for International Communication)??
or other test??

Please visit Nihongo Cabinet,too!
You can check japanese!

Luxpyre
Nov 7, 2002, 10:43
Well, I have just started studying Japanese on my own. I am just working on the Kana right now. I don't really know any vocabulary and only a smattering on sentence structure, but I am slowly making my way through the Hiragana right now. I do know something like eight Kanji. I think the Kanji are a lot of fun, although I don't know how I will think of them when I am putting a lot of effort into learning them. The eight that I know stuck in my head like glue. I wrote them down a few times and the next day I still remembered them. I don't know what the actual Japanese is for them, but hey, its a start. Of course my penmanship is probably horrible, but that will improve with practice. ; )

moyashi
Nov 7, 2002, 16:18
TOEIC, TOEFL, TESOL ... are gaining popularity while the EIKEN for English is dropping. Nope, never heard of Britsh Consel in Japan.


There is a Japanese Laguage Proficency test and a Teach Japanese as a Second Language test too.

@ Learning
Ahh, don't worry about the hand writting. You will only get better.

Hiragan is the easiest since you see it much more often but I'd put a bit extra time into the katakana since they are used mostly for foreign words and you end up spending all your time trying to figure out what the English (mostly) equivolent is.

Good Luck!

Kaji
Jan 12, 2003, 02:47
I've been studying for about two years, the first 9 months of which were quite informal (read: I sat down with 30 volumes of Ranma 1/2, pen, paper, and a dictionary and tried to pick out patterns). Since then I've taken a total of 6 Japanese courses, and recently took the JLPT Level 3 (if the practice tests I took last semester are any indication, I just passed it...we'll find out in about a month or so, ne?). All the while I've continued to do such things as read manga and watch anime raw, which has helped immensely (I know roughly 700 or so Kanji)

miyuki
Jan 19, 2003, 00:31
Hi,Kaji

Your way sounds enjoyable.
As for me (English learner),
reading or answering threads here, exchanging mails with friends,
chatting or talking with friends...such communication helps my study.
:)

dogcountry
Feb 1, 2003, 07:22
Well, here's one. The US Navy enrolled me in spoken Japanese that lasted about 60 days. I enrolled for Japanese Language at Berlitz School of Languages in Boston. Now hear this. I took 500 hours of Japanese at five hours a day and this lasted for about six months. Can't be sure as most of the time I was ready to crash mentally. Native teachers of course. One teacher told me I had a Kangi vocabularly of a 3rd grader. Today I can barely get by with not more than a bare knowledge. You use it or you forget it.

ragedaddy
Feb 18, 2003, 09:47
Well, I have been studying Japanese for about 10 months up in a Japanese Language School in Tokyo. I`d have to say my level is in between the ”\—Ν‚Μ‚R‹‰and ‚Q‹‰. However, I definitely have a long way to go. Japanese is really a challenging language to learn, but it is really enjoyable at the same time. I guess my advice is if you really want to learn it, then you have to dedicate yourself to@a lot of studying, practicing, and making a lot of mistakes. That`s my opinion anyways.....

hannahgirl7
Feb 28, 2003, 05:40
well i don't know any japanese and since i go to a really small highschool the only languages they offer are spanish, french and latin. i'm graduating this year though and i plan to start studying japanese in college... i'm really excited for it but i'm not too good at learning foreign languages....

StorDuff
Feb 28, 2003, 08:00
really small? we don't even have latin.

jeisan
Mar 5, 2003, 12:25
i know some words and phrases n some katakana n thats about it. most of the words n things ive picked up from anime. i swear lain says 'nani' 100 times every episode. :p

my school didnt have latin either, just spainish, french and german. though for a third of the school spainish was their 1st language. i opted for german, took 4 years, but ive forgotten alot of it :sorry:

thomas
Mar 6, 2003, 21:47
Latin was compulsory at my school, I don't regret having studied it for 7 years. It's an excellent base for other languages, although it doesn't really help a lot with nihongo studies.
:)

Iron Chef
Mar 11, 2003, 17:48
Hmm... hard to believe I haven't replied to this thread yet so here goes...

I consider myself fluent in conversational Japanese and it is something I pride myself on having learnt "the hard way" so to speak. Prior to my arrival in Japan I had virtually no direct exposure to the language (had not taken classes or bought audio tapes, etc.). I am a firm believer of the age-old adage "When in Rome..." therefore one of my first priorities was to immerse myself in the language as much as possible. This was no easy task and gaining even a basic comprehension was not something I was able to do early on. Only after acclimating to my environment and making a dedicated effort to commit to memory as many vocabulary and phrases as possible was I then on my way to gaining a level of comprehension.

My daily routine those first six months or so consisted of me carrying a small notepad with me where ever I went. As I would hear a common word or phrase repeated often, I would jot it down phonetically into my pad as best I could for future reference. Then, when I could afford the time (usually in-between classes at work), I would leisurely look up the meanings to everything I had written down. Soon I began forming lists and these I would eventually commit to memory as best I could. Interestingly enough, the more comfortable with the language I became, the more I wanted to learn. It was at this point then that I actually began taking classes from some of my private adult students (language exchange) to further polish my conversational skills.

For the entire duration of my stay, I made an active effort to use Japanese as much as possible and surround myself with the language. I did not actively seek out any native English speakers although having been in Sapporo I certainly could have had the opportunity. Nevertheless, I had met several native English speakers who had been there longer than me yet whose mastery of the Japanese language was considerably lacking as they tended to surround themselves with English speaking friends ever since their arrival. I resolved myself to not fall into the same trap so to speak.

At some point, i'm not sure when really... but everything just seemed to "click" and I found myself very comfortable using Japanese as often and as freely as possible. It wasn't until I was seated next to an elderly woman when I was returning home to the States for the Holidays that this realization finally dawned on me. This very kind Grandmother happened to be on her way to visit her relatives in California and she did not speak a lick of English. My ability to maintain a conversation with her without repeating myself and sounding redundant for the entire duration of that flight is still one of those personal milestones embedded in my memory.

As it stands, my Japanese has gotten a bit rusty having been away from Japan for a few years now. Although as I look forward to graduation this Fall, my plans to return to Japan soon have reinvigorated my efforts to pick up where I had left off. My advice to any beginners is this: IMMERSE yourself as much as humanly possible. Yes, you will get frustrated but don't give up! There IS a light at the end of the tunnel and comprehension is its name. Believe it or not, through sheer exposure, you WILL learn even if it is the "hard way". And ultimately, in the end it makes it all the more worthwhile. Keep practicing!

:clap: :) :clap:

Keiichi
Mar 12, 2003, 14:40
Although I've heard many people learned Japanese by staying in Japan for a while, that one was probably the best I've heard so far. :)
Maybe I had not read it, but how long were you there?

Chipi
Mar 12, 2003, 17:16
...your mail sounds encouraging, iron chef :)

I tried to learn some basics of japanese language last fall, but I have allready forgotten so much. I should just find the time and learn all the hiraganas and katakanas without looking from the book.

I work at a place where we have international guests pretty much every day, and lucky me, also a lot of japanese people :)
I just feel somehow, a bit depressed, because I can΄t say that much to our japanese guests. Seems stupid to say just "Hajimemashite, watashi wa..." or something like that in a situation like that...and very often the japanese guests have had the effort to learn some finnish words, like "kiitos" (thank you) and "nakemiin" (goodbye).
How could I say, politely and nicely, something like "thank you for visiting us, have a nice day" ? Tips are taken :)

Iron Chef
Mar 13, 2003, 11:42
Keiichi:

Two years and two months give or take a few days. I am earnestly looking forward to returning asap (most likely anytime after the new Year).

Chipi:

Just keep plugging away. I know it can be very daunting at first but perhaps you could try formulating vocabulary lists of say five to ten different words to committ to memory each day. You could also use home made flash cards to help with the memorization part as i've found these to be an extremely useful tool (and often times less awkward than carrying an actual Dictionary around with you everywhere).

With enough patience and practice, you could then use your home made stack of flash cards to align themselves into simple phrases and sentences laying the cards out in front of you as an added visual. Once you have the vocabulary down, learning sentence structure comes naturally imho. Give the flash cards a shot and lemme know if they work for you.

Oh, and you could try maybe "yoi ichinichi o" for "have a nice day" although it is a bit formal and not used in everyday speak. For a more common "come back soon" try "itte rasshai". Hope that helps, although i'm sure your friends will be more honored by your sincerity rather than perfect pronunciation.

:clap:

Keiichi
Mar 14, 2003, 02:40
Kind of impressive how two years one can learn a whole new language and culture. Quite inspirational.

The only thing that limits me is currently my vocabulary in reading, listening, and speaking. I can speak Japanese really well, fluent-like (not-super fast, but not learning slow) and pronouncing everything accuratly, if only I have something to say or know what to say, which is my problem (not actually a problem, just don't know it yet... *lol*). So far I've only taken 2.5 years of Japanese courses (not devoted since I have other classes...) and I still don't know much and knowing that two years living in Japan can boost that learning so much faster is inspirational. I hope I can do it after I get my bachelor from Uni hopefully that's from 2 to 3 years. ^_^

Iron Chef
Mar 14, 2003, 05:46
Trust me Keiichi, you'll do fine-heck, even better i'd say since you already have a formal academic background with all the classes you've taken. Remember, I went in cold-turkey and if you ever met me in person you'd realize i'm probably the LAST person to pick up on Japanese as well as I did lol. Therefore, if a bumbling buffoon such as myself can do it, should be cake for the likes of you :D

Keiichi
Mar 14, 2003, 06:22
Thanks! :happy:

Say, what kind of preparations do you need for such a long trip? Lots of money? (and hopefully land a job) *lol*
I've never even moved away from the state or anywhere. ^^'

jeisan
Mar 14, 2003, 09:27
i was once told by a foreign exchange student at my school who was fluent in several languages that one of the best ways to learn a language is to think in it, dont think in your native tounge and translate it into whatever else. so if ya wanna speak japanese, think japanese.

Keiichi
Mar 15, 2003, 02:31
Hey Iron Chef (cook me something good to eat.. :ramen: j/k), so in that two year time, you've also learned how to write Japanese pretty well? How much kanji did you think you've learned? I found it quite hard to learn kanji (except the ones at my level that I'm learning). So with your notepad, did you also jot down kanjis since Japanese consists of so many of them in their text.

Iron Chef
Mar 15, 2003, 17:07
Learning Kanji as opposed to just conversational Japanese is an entirely different beast in and of itself. One could easily spend years learning the different meanings, contexts, and proper stroke order and yet still never fully master all the subtle intricacies that exist. For myself, I can probably recognize around just under four hundred or so which is hardly anything to brag about really compared to the 48,000+. Most of those are utilitarian in nature as well and pretty commonplace and I can actually write a little less than half that number in reality.

Surprisingly, i've found you can get by remarkably well with just a few hundred basic Kanji and a good comprehension of Hiragana and Katakana in terms of surviving day-to day. I don't recommend using my aforementioned notepad technique for learning Kanji as it is only really conducive for maybe the simpler forms. Ideally, a great way to learn Kanji is through practicing Shodo or Japanese calligraphy. I've included a link that you may find helpful with regards to learning more about Shodo. I also encourage you to check out the other resources available through this site and forum to learn more about Kanji as they may be of more help to you.

http://japanese.about.com/cs/calligraphy/


:clap:

ragedaddy
Mar 16, 2003, 09:26
Yeah, the best place to learn Japanese is of course in Japan. A good way of getting down the language at a faster pace is to enroll in a Language School. 3 years ago I studied Japanese for about 4 months in the Northern part of Japan for like 4 months at a University. That was way too short of a stay, and so I came back and tried to study on my own. However, that pretty much sucked, and also my college didn`t offer Japanese classes. I really wanted to learn Japanese, so I researched online and found a Japanese Language School. Before I came to Japan this time, I had a small base, but I could hardly hold a conversation. However, after studying at a language school for about less than a year, my skills have improved drastically. I can get by pretty well now, so that is definitely a cool thing.

I also have been living with a homestay family for the last 6 months, so that has really helped my conversational skills as well as my listening skills. Also, having a Japanese girlfriend has improved my language skills as well, but that is only one of the many benefits about having an intercultural relationship. Everyday in Japan is basically a learning experience, because you are forced to speak Japanese to get around. Plus when you are hanging out with Japanese friends, you can pick up lots of new words, because they ussually end up repeating those same words frequently through out their conversation. I also have some good American buddies over here as well, so it is good to go out and speak some English once in a while.

As for Kanji, I invested in an electronic dictionary, and as I would write sentences in class, I would look up the kanji for the word and write that down opposed to hiragana. It was kind of a pain at first, but once you write the kanjis down a bunch of times, you start to get the hang of it. In my practice book, I also wrote down the kanjis individually about a billion times until they were pretty much engrained in my head. As of right now I can probably read close to 800 or 900 kanji, and probably can write about half. However, I am not even close to where I want to end up, so I`m going to have to keep on with those kanjis.

I also depends on how dedicated you are to studying the language. I worked myself hard day after day to get where I am.
If you are a slacker and you don`t like to study, then it will take longer to become proficient. There are so many things you can do to improve your language skills. For example. watch Japanese TV, listen to Japanese music, read Japanese books, etc.

If you already have a good base of the Japanese, then it will be even easier to pick up on the language. Therefore, you shouldn`t have any worries about studying here in Japan, because it`s the best place to learn Japanese. All I can say is best of luck to all of you guys studying, and the most important part is just having fun with the language. It gets frustrating, believe me, but don`t give up! You can do it!

:wave:

Elizabeth
Apr 22, 2003, 10:02
I have been studying about 5 years on my own, with a tutor and three months at a language school in Japan. I'm not sure of the exact number, but probably able to recognize between 3,000-4,000 individual kanji by now so newspaper and magazine reading is semi-fluent. I do write a lot of emails to my tutor and boyfriend in Japan, although conversation and listening are slower.

I definately agree with a previous poster that once you have the basic sentence structures & vocab down the best thing is to begin trying to think in the language on your own and weaning yourself from phrase books, sample sentences in dictionaries, etc. It's very hard for me because I hate making mistakes and sometimes there really isn't any way to reason with Japanese.

Like this sentence I got from my b/f the other day. We were talking about the phrase 'kimochi ga waitekite' (sort of like suddenly realizing someone is gone and feeling lonely/missing them). I think he was saying in the case of enjoyable things it doesn't matter whether you gradually or suddenly realize someone is gone and wrote: "Kimochi ga waitekite....." wa 'suddenly' dewanakute 'gradually realized.....' de.....wa tanoshii koto demo kamaimasen." I still don't quite understand the grammar behind "tanoshii koto demo kamaimasen," though, so this could be a bit off base.

Soccerphile
Apr 26, 2003, 14:54
Been here for over 10 years but not much better than intermediate - still live in hope and have been following Kanji clinic on my phone:
http://japanvisitor.com/i_mode/clinic.html

Kyo
May 4, 2003, 19:28
Originally posted by Elizabeth
I'm not sure of the exact number, but probably able to recognize between 3,000-4,000 individual kanji by now so newspaper and magazine reading is semi-fluent. I do write a lot of emails to my tutor and boyfriend in Japan, although conversation and listening are slower.


I think you overdid it a bit. Usually you can read magazines with a proper knowledge of about 1200-1500kanji. Newspapers at around 1600-1800 kanji.
But 3000-4000 kanji ??? That would be really old japanese literature. Not even a native japanese could read that much.

Elizabeth
May 4, 2003, 21:17
Originally posted by Kyo
I think you overdid it a bit. Usually you can read magazines with a proper knowledge of about 1200-1500kanji. Newspapers at around 1600-1800 kanji.
But 3000-4000 kanji ??? That would be really old japanese literature. Not even a native japanese could read that much.
Yes, thanks, I realized that later since my dictionary just lists 2,882 and only 1,945 Jouyou Kanji have been authorized for general use. Anyway, I am terrible with numbers. :blush: :blush:

lil_chickie
May 17, 2003, 20:02
Originally posted by deborah gormley
Just greeting for me I'm afraid:bawling: but willing to learn more:note:

hai. japanese is hard. ^_^ "

ax
Jun 17, 2003, 14:50
I know katakana and hiragana plus kanji. I know some basic grammar and sentence pattern. But am not very conversant in japanese.

ax

aaron
Jun 26, 2003, 06:19
Hi. I've been taking Japanese for about 5 years know and know between 200-400 kanji and all kanas fluently. I have been to Japan and that has helped tremendously. Yesterday, a japanese student wrote my name out in kanji and it meant the mountain with no meaning. It seems to change every year.

Maciamo
Jun 26, 2003, 17:07
@number of kanji

Electronic dictionaries usually list all the kanji used in Japanese, that is a bit more than 6000. Of course, that includes the old ones used only in literature, as modern Japanese requires only a bit more than 2000 of them (and not all adults Japanese know even the 1945 jouyou !). There are lots of books with different levels of kanji for Japanese students (and adults). Even university educated people aren't expected to know more than 2500, so I am surprised by Elizabeth's 3000-4000 kanji to read a newspaper.

Elizabeth-san, have you tried any of these books to estimated your knowledge of kanji ? Here is the 1kyuu (level 1, about 6000kanji) for Japanese. There is also level sub-1 (€ˆκ‹‰, about 3000 kanji). Very few Japanese can achieve even level sub-1 if from what I've heard.

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/4415022588.09.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

Himura
Jun 26, 2003, 18:53
I never learned jap at school... what a shame! Learning Nihongo is my hobby... NO!!! itLs more than that! I love this language!! - ITLs my fate!! Muhahahaha :evil:
....but ILm still so bad :( thatLs depressing :bawling:
*ThatLs why I never had time learn... because of the school... ILm looking for a teacher in my near! <==OFFER ;)*

aaron
Jun 27, 2003, 10:34
Japanese is easy when you get over the structures. I thought at the start of the course that it was the hardest language and now I am getting A's in correspondence.

lil_chickie
Jul 5, 2003, 16:24
i love nihongo!! :clap: but i can only teach myself as i dont learn it at school. but im doing well. ive been taking japanese not long.

Mae
Jul 5, 2003, 22:48
i'm kinda true blue nihongo fan, just know sum'in bout it, The basics i mean...really basic, i learn it all from the jap dorama, they'r GREAT!!

blueskies
Jul 21, 2003, 01:49
i can't speak or understand japanese..but i would really love to learn..i found the japanese characters or kanji i think is what they call it really cool..looks hard to learn though:d

aaron
Jul 21, 2003, 10:16
Kanji isn't too hard to learn once you learn the first 100 or so. But if you study them a lot you will know them in about one week per 10 kanji

blockhar
Jul 27, 2003, 23:52
yeah, i know how to speak, read, write in japanese. i know about 150 kanji. but i have only been studying for a year. and i am continue. and i would have to agree that its hard esp. for the newbies such as myself.

Kaleikuiha
Aug 3, 2003, 14:55
That is so true! Well for me, I took a Japanese101 in college. my sensei taught us Japanese as if we're Nihojin in Nihon. The speed of the course was this... Kindergarten-12th grade & 1st year of Uni, all in the a matter of 3 months! The language was/is deep within my subconsious mind that I start speaking it and not know that I'm doing it. I can understand Japanese but I just can't always translated to someone that will make complete sense to them.

The one grat thing about the class was that I was the top student and I know more Kanji then that of the Chinese Transfer Students ufufufu. I have the Kanji vocabularly of a 4th year Uni Studet^^ too bad I don't know all of the Kanji that there is, at least I know the most obscure kana and kanji.

taU_U
Aug 4, 2003, 02:36
Konichua!( is it correct?*confuZed*) I'm new in this forum! Could you please tell me, where can I find a site in which I can study japanese?


Domo Arigato! ( or something like that^_^)

ben0a4
Aug 4, 2003, 06:55
u should study english first ^_^ just kiddin
buy a studybook , there's nothin better.

taU_U
Aug 5, 2003, 00:32
Hei, hei, hei! I'm studying english for second year!Okai?:eek: If you want we can play CS1.5 or NFS6 or WARCRAFT3! And I mean some website!

avarame
Aug 5, 2003, 13:11
Konnichiwa, mina-san! Hajimemashite!
Watashi no namae wa Joe (Jou that is) desu. Douzo yoroshiku!
Watashi wa koukousei desu. Watashi no shumi wa nihongo desu!

Whew, that's the longest chunk of Japanese I've ever written. And I only had to use two dictionaries, Babelfish, and a quick glance at Japanese For Dummies for a particular phrase that I couldn't find (for one's hobby - "I really like it but I'm not very good at it"). Oh well :( . Back to my native tongue now.

I've been interested in nihongo since I was a little kid, and now I'm starting to learn it. I'm making slow progress. I know most of the hiragana (ne/re/wa and sa/chi still drive me crazy), almost none of the hiragana, and about five kanji. Between Usborne's First Thousand Words In Japanese and kanji flash cards, I'm starting to pick up the vocabulary. I also watch fansubbed anime, which helps me with typical conversation and some cultural things. And finally there are plenty of great websites that are helping me learn (including this one ;)

So that's where I am in my studies of nihongo. I just joined this forum today as you can see (*points leftward at join date*), I found it through a Google search for places to learn nihongo. "Sometimes the best friendships are formed through a chance meeting" - (from Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai") ;)

Yuya
Aug 9, 2003, 20:07
I only can speak a few words...-_-' am just a beginner...

Matsuyuu
Aug 14, 2003, 02:15
I don't know if we're supposed to WRITE a reply, but here's mine.
I know a little Japanese, the common forms of "to be," and most hiragana. I'd be a little less than a small child, there, right? Anyway, I really like Japanese, although it's pretty hard, and I'm gonna keep at it.

jspecdan
Aug 14, 2003, 12:52
i can speak a good amount, can read hiragana + katakana. Basically I'm illiterate. :auch:

maji
Aug 15, 2003, 18:20
i know the kanas and some grammar and stuff but im not that good yet... i didnt learn enough kanji and flunked an exam :o

keithd
Sep 1, 2003, 20:42
I just know "naniccsome phrase like that ,
but I would like to learn it ccand go to japan someday

miyuki
Sep 3, 2003, 00:19
hi,keithd.

I think you'll be ale to come to Japan!;)

serewen
Sep 5, 2003, 12:30
hehe,I just past the test for jlpt(all level).I think the kanji section is litter bit hard.(agree?)
’ʐM‚·‚ι‚½‚ί‚Ι“ϊ–{Œκ‚πŽg—p‚΅‚Δ‚­‚Ύ‚³‚’! ~ŽQ‚Ή‚ΈA‚»‚κ‚π‚ζ‚­ˆΫŽ‚΅‚ά‚·B
:P
lucky I'm chinese,so most of the kanji meaning r same.

MtoM
Sep 7, 2003, 04:38
I bought a book and i am in the te&ta forms chapter

teru2xbouzu
Oct 24, 2003, 15:38
i'm High beginner/lower intermediate here.. ^-^

anjuliet-san
Oct 25, 2003, 07:56
Just learning. Want to take classes but I found out there isnt a lot of places that offers Japanese language course :wary:

samuraitora
Oct 30, 2003, 21:49
unfortunately I have never really had anyone to speak it with since I left High School. So, I have lost the ability to speak it. I know this when I went to get some Natto last weekend and the woman had no idea what I was saying. When I wrote it down, she had no problem with it...too funny

Coolguy
Oct 30, 2003, 23:16
Just words and phrases but I'd really like to learn :(

EscaFlowne
Nov 15, 2003, 00:13
I'd like to learn and i'm as blank on pronunciation and meaning as a bucket with a hole in it

Yubimusubi
Nov 16, 2003, 00:36
A good program for learning kanji is JQuickTrans (which i believe you can get from www.coolest.com) which has preloaded jouyou courses in kanji levels 1-12 (i think that's it) and they're in the order the japanese learn them. Another place to learn japanese (basic japanese, gramatics and kana, no kanji, however) is www.japanese-online.com ...16 lessons, should take about 3 months for a quick learner and less than a year for most people.

EscaFlowne
Nov 20, 2003, 21:40
thanks! 3 months of dedication here i come
*Or 1 year for slacking which i will try and stray from...*

destiny
Nov 24, 2003, 04:12
i started learning japanese once, but i had to give it up because i had no time for it... some day i'd like to pick it up again

Onigiri Chan
Dec 1, 2003, 08:01
I'm just starting my Japanese classes, and i'm happy to say that i'm catching on pretty quick. I can read and write Katakana and Hiragana (almost) fluently, which makes me feel warm and squishy inside. :blush:
My classes are actually almost over and wether or not I will be able to continue them is as of now a mystery, so if anyone has any pointers or tips on keeping up my lessons, that'd be nifty!
I was thinking about picking up some Japanese childrens books from this cute little bookstore that I found one day...

Arigato Minasan!:bow:

Onigiri Chan
Dec 1, 2003, 08:04
I want to go to JApan so badly!
I really hope that I can get this whole language thing down, i'm not exactly confident, i'm constantly confusing myself.:blush:
Adventually i'm sure i'll meet my goal! Maybe?

mad pierrot
Dec 2, 2003, 22:18
Something funny:
I studied Japanese for quite awhile, and I've even lived in Japan before, but I'm always being knocked back into place.
Today I was working at my desk and my boss stopped by to talk. Since my Japanese is better than his English, I gave him the go to talk in Nihongo to save time... bad idea
Have you ever heard a soft-spoken, middle-aged, alcoholic Japanese man with a horrible countryside accent try to explain an insurance policy in about 30 seconds? I didn't know whether to laugh or cry...

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 8, 2003, 10:24
I was wondering,If i wanted to Learn Japanese would anyone here help me or just Guide me with what book to Buy??

I have always wanted to learn but need someone to talk to,so i can advance more

King of Tokyo
Dec 8, 2003, 10:31
I've been trying to learn japanese for about 2 or 3 weeks i think and I've got greetings and basic conversation down pretty well, although if a native japanese person were to say even the words i know really fast i would probably have to think about what they said for a second and then reply since i havent mastered it completely, i havent really tried to learn hiragana or katakana yet but i know a couple letters, i suppose i should try to take a class or something.. but in my school there is no japanese class >_< and i dont know where to begin trying to find a japanese class or tutor or something.. i dont know where on the poll i should be , can anyone tell me ?

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 8, 2003, 10:36
I think you should vote under: Just a few words or phrases (greetings, etc)

You did say you were able to say certain and basic words.well this is what i think,i hope i was able to help a little

Onigiri Chan
Dec 9, 2003, 04:44
Hey there Hidden_Wisdom!
I'm not sure what stores you have available to you, or anything like that...so i'll suggest something that's fairly easy to find and works really well for learning on your own!
I recommend a little book called "Japanese in 10 minutes a day"
If you remain faithful to your studies then it works really well. I picked it up myself, but i'm not to good at being responsible without motivation so I had to hunt out a class....
If you search there are a few sites out there that are really useful as well. I'm um...not quites sure where they are, but if you search on google, i'm sure you'll find them in no time, they're fairly popular.
Anyways, I hope that I could be of some help! If you need me to look around, i'll be more than happy to, i've no life which means plenty of free time, and i'd be glad to help you out! Meheh, please keep in mind that i'm fairly new at this as well though.

Good luck!

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 9, 2003, 08:57
Thank you for taking Interest in helping me out with my Little Dream of speaking Japanese,Well I went to Amazon and check under the book title you gave me And i was able to FIND it.I am so happy that im finally going to be getting something that can help me.I would just like to say thanks for anyething.and i think you will be seeing me around more:clap:

Onigiri Chan
Dec 9, 2003, 09:57
Hah! It's no problem! :blush:
I'm really glad I could help though, i've got the same dream. I"m still not quite sure why i'm trying to hard to learn Japanese, but when I decide to do something I really go for it and i'm glad to meet someone who's also really interested in learning the language. It's not that i'm on my own, but everyone knows so much more then I do -.-
Most people aren't very charitable either.
Well anyways, i'm really glad you were able to find it and I really hope it helps. The book's a really good first step, if only I had actually had the patience to use it! ^.^

Good luck!

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 9, 2003, 10:02
Dont Worry once i am able to start learning i am thinking why dont we use the book and learn together,it might be online but will will have better chances learning quicker with helping each other out, since its the same book?:bow:

Onigiri Chan
Dec 9, 2003, 10:10
Hahah! Certainly, if you've the time I wouldn't mind having someone to study with. Let me know when you can start! :happy:

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 9, 2003, 10:13
No Problem im looking forward to this kind of Freindship,Well i have alot of time but just scattered patterns,we will work something out
:note: Not to self:cANCEL ALL MY MEETING WITH FREINDS AND OPEN THEM FOR Onigirl Chan

TyPe-ZeRo
Dec 9, 2003, 10:17
oooo, I wanna join this study club! i wanna join oh GOD LET ME JOIN!!! lol

*Note to self* If let in the study club, cancel plans of doing nothing

k!

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 9, 2003, 10:24
You are Always welcomed to join but the one rule is to enter the club you have to drink a cup of SAKE:beer: Type-Zero i have been a very busy man as you can see ill reply a.s.ap to your posts soon.lol

Onigiri Chan
Dec 9, 2003, 10:29
Welcome to the group Type_Zero! ^.^

:note: *cancels her plans as well* AHA!

AnimeLuver
Dec 11, 2003, 02:34
I know a few word of japaniese like: konnichiwa
, sayonara, ja ne, pantsu ummm i think thats all.
but I can speak chinese:)

Onigiri Chan
Dec 11, 2003, 06:24
Ima learn Japanese and Mandarin! BOO YEAH!
I shall go fourth and spread my energy around China and Japan!!!!
*does a little dance*
I know some basic stuff cuz I took classes (for Japanese)
um um...
like doitashimashite....that's the most fun to say! it's like, don't touch my mustache =) (means "you're welcome)
:D

CA_mestizo
Dec 19, 2003, 00:39
wow, how many people here speak Chinese?

Hidden_Wisdom
Dec 20, 2003, 12:37
LoL/i FEELT YOU MOST LIKLY FIND NOONE here,But i Hope many poeple show up/

MikeM
Dec 22, 2003, 09:33
I'm 14 and I have decided to start learning. I can say a few phrases I am learning from Pimsleur (I am at lesson 2) and I am learning hiragana and katakana from computer programs also while writing them on paper. Kanji will start shortly but I am really not rushing myself.

Any suggestions appreciated.

kittie
Dec 22, 2003, 11:40
i need a nihingo sensei im very good a lready cause my tomodachi teaches me but i need someone more advanced to teach me too. help me, KUDASAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!! reply as soon as you can...

its_me_the_shinigami
Jan 3, 2004, 13:35
i can teach.

if you want to talk email me, K?
i have only been studying for about 8 months and i can say almost any simple sentance and i have a large vocabulary.
im teaching to others at my school here because no body here is sertified to teach japanese.
i teach for free and for fun.
and as someone said earlyer it is the best if you start thinking in japanese as much as possible. try to make it a habit that when you dont understand something think "Nani" not "what". if you start doing that sort of thing it will stick with you better.
oh look at me im going on and on again, jibber jabber:p
i guess i will probably talk to you later

SkaKid0911
Jan 7, 2004, 05:56
I see people here writing in like all japanese and i can read the hiragana but the Kanji blows me away. 2000?! For those of u fluent how long did it take you to learn, knowing me ill be able to read about a quarter ofthe kanji in only 15 years! :)

The Gentleman Carp
Jan 13, 2004, 06:35
Konichiwa.

Watashi wa nihongo no gakusei desu. Rainen kara benkyou o shimashita.

Chiizu o nomimasu. Watashi wa hon desu. kyou wa Inu to neko o furimashita.

And that's about the extent of my Japanese. It's hard to write in roomaji! I've been studying for about five months, going over my vocabulary and kana.

I've long been a fan of all things japanese (especially haiku, anime, women, and shinto), and have tried learning the language before. I just found your forum, and I'm liking it so far (everyone seems polite, &etc...)

I long to learn to write haiku in japanese, as well as study japanese etymology.

- A Carp

Musoka
Jan 21, 2004, 08:53
I am a high beginner, I know my hellos/goodbyes and numbers, etc. I also know some shop talk and the basic particles of the japanese language

PaulTB
Jan 22, 2004, 22:16
I hope to be able to say "JLPT 1" this time next year, but I doubt that I'll pass first try...

chie
Jan 24, 2004, 15:04
I just joined. I got the website from my Japanese professor. I think it really cool though. I'm in my fourth year of Japanese. It's really tough but I enjoy it! I would like to be fluent....but I think I'm a long way from that. I hope to make lots of friends here....especially from Japan.

‚Ά‚α‚ ‚ά‚½A
’mŒb@Chelsie

Ewok85
Jan 25, 2004, 11:51
Ive studied at high school which was very... well not study, but i went to japan last year for 11months which really kicked the level up. Attempted the lvl2 ability test in dec but still no result... I hope i passed!!

Kanji is my biggest problem, not just that i had 1000 to remember also had the readings and words you can make with them too... arrgh >_<

My tip: learn hiragana and katakana reeeeeeal good before kanji, get grammer not vocab. Once you know the grammer vocab falls into place with no problem. (Did about 100 words a week once id understood grammar)

chie
Jan 25, 2004, 15:46
Yeah...Kanji is really hard.....that's my biggest problem too. You're right living in Japan really helps.....I didn't really start picking it up until I went to school over there. I was there last year as well. What part of Japan were you in? I lived in Hakusan. I was an exchange student at Toyo University. I'm going back this summer to work for a year as an English teacher in Hokkaido. ‚ΰ‚Ώ‚λ‚ρAŠy‚΅‚έ‚ζB
’mŒb

tsukinoko
Jan 27, 2004, 01:01
I'm lower intermediate. Should pass JLPT4 without problems, going for JLPT3 right away in December (still lots of time to study...)
For memorizing Kanji I learn japanese songs and poems by heart and translate them. I think it helps, especially the songs - with the melody you easily see the words/kanji in your inner eye.
Okay, it doesn't help for writing them, but with the help of the pc you don't need to write them yourself anyway.

English-teacher in Japan, ne...
wish I could do that, but am no native-english-speaker...

SacredBlue
Jan 27, 2004, 11:30
wish I could do that, but am no native-english-speaker...
coulda fooled me

Newb
Jan 29, 2004, 08:56
kanji is pretty easy for me (the writing part, because im a chinese), but kanji is written in traditional chinese, which is a little more difficult to write/remember than the simplified version.

anyway, when it comes to pronouncing kanji in Japanese, i have no idea how to do it. so yeah, its tough.

caitcid
Feb 1, 2004, 10:08
I am going to be getting japanese classes at a community college soon...so far I know katakana...little bit of hiragana..and some kanji..

For speaking I know greetings (polite ones as well) and a few sentences....been learning for a year now. ^^;

MtoM
Feb 1, 2004, 22:22
now... I know about everything in a beginners' textbook
but I still see that not enough... I don't know what book shall I buy afterward

ganbatte kudasai!

Merar
Feb 5, 2004, 06:06
in fact I love japanese language.. sounds great to me .. I love also to understand the japanese anime which I love alooooot ***
Even that thsi language in my country is sooooooo rare *****


Merar

Narau
Mar 4, 2004, 02:36
I'm still very much a beginner. My hiragana recognition is about 85% accurate. Katakana next :note: . Volcabulary very small at the moment. Thought it would be a good idea to get the kana's under my belt before tackeling the rest.

Hachiko
Mar 4, 2004, 02:37
Looking at the polls, most people are either high beginner/low intermediate, or know a few kanas but still beginner, or know a greeting or two. Interesting... :note:

kai_sethoris
Mar 4, 2004, 03:41
except for me of course . . .

im crap at all languages, but am dying to learn this 1!!!

Kama
Mar 10, 2004, 03:55
I'm learning Japanese at university. Japan is my specialty, so you can say I'm improving everyday. Well, I'm always cautious with my knowledge of Japanese, so I'm not the best person to ask me a question about this. I suppose it's JLPT4. I don't know if I'm already intermediate...

kurai-chiemi669
Mar 13, 2004, 06:59
Konbanwa everyone!! Chiemi desu...hajimemashite?

Yay for me!!! :cool: I have two nihonjin tomodachi of which I'm learning Japanese. But too bad I get scared speaking to some other Japanese people :blush: I get scared I may make a mistake. :( Anou...I'm a high beginner/low intermediate and fast improving. :happy:

Jaamataane...Kurai_Chiemi :bow:

nikki_the_insane
Mar 25, 2004, 07:49
Soon... very soon will I have learned the Kana... must-take-japanese-online-2-years-must-have-college... :evil:

dreamer
Apr 9, 2004, 14:43
As for me i never took a japanese lesson...but I think i'll subscribe to some next year ^^
lol anyway japanese must be easier than chinese....

seimeinogakusei
Apr 29, 2004, 15:11
As for me i never took a japanese lesson...but I think i'll subscribe to some next year ^^
lol anyway japanese must be easier than chinese....
You're so right about that. Chinese is way harder...at least to me. It has something to do with the language having 4+ tones.

I'm a beginner in Japanese. Some friends call me high beginner/intermediate. I'm really not sure. :? I speak very little Japanese. I'm self-taught and taking it slow. :-)

emperor
May 8, 2004, 00:25
“ϊ–{‚Μ—F‚½‚ΏA‚±‚ρ‚’‚Ώ‚νBBBHow do says "I become so numb" in japanese term???
I want to learn “ϊ–{Œκ!II

serewen
May 12, 2004, 15:20
“ϊ–{‚Μ—F‚½‚ΏA‚±‚ρ‚’‚Ώ‚νBBBHow do says "I become so numb" in japanese term???
I want to learn “ϊ–{Œκ!II
Ž„‚Ν”ρν‚Ι–³Š΄Šo‚Ι‚Θ‚θ‚ά‚·B
watashi wa jishoni mu kankakuni narimasu


“ϊ–{Œκ‚πŠwK‚·‚ι‚ΝƒXƒeƒbƒv‚ɏ]‚€•K—v‚ͺ‚ ‚θ‚ά‚·B

by the way,nice to heard u from china,ni hao!

emperor
May 14, 2004, 11:47
Ž„‚Ν”ρν‚Ι–³Š΄Šo‚Ι‚Θ‚θ‚ά‚·B
watashi wa jishoni mu kankakuni narimasu
by the way,nice to heard u from china,ni hao!
‚’‚λ@‚’‚λ@‚ ‚θ‚ͺ‚Ζ‚€@‚²‚΄‚’‚ά‚·BBƒ}ƒŒ[ƒVƒA‚Μ—FlA你DBB


:D :relief:

Oliver
May 15, 2004, 10:13
I'm about mid-way between JLPT level 4 and 3. Can read and write in hiragana and katakana almost as quickly as I can in romaji. I know about 1000 words, can recognise 300 kanji ... but only write about 100 of them. My Japanese grammar is truly awful. Practice, practice, practice! I'll get there eventually. :)

Oliver
May 16, 2004, 09:55
Er, make me JLPT level 4, if that. I just took a look at the preparation website and it scared me. And there I was thinking the JLPT was just about kanji... :)

Elizabeth
May 16, 2004, 10:08
“ϊ–{Œκ‚Ε“ο‚΅‚’‚Μ‚Ν•Ά–@‚Ύ‚―‚Ε‚·‚ˁB:)

neofusion
Jun 2, 2004, 03:59
hello,
im neofusion! i joined the forums just a few days ago. i have been wanting to speak japanese for some time now. i need someone to teach me some japanese or just point me in the right direction where i can learn basic japanese. i will be very thankfull!

Wakaranai
Jun 12, 2004, 12:05
Can only speek and make out a little.

Bench
Jun 22, 2004, 16:03
Can anyone one help me to find out what does the meaning of this in English



Itsumo kokoro we hoshi itsuka
Dare katu mata koi nei utchitimu
Itsumo kokori nei eiro itsumo
Anata dake no basho ga aru kara
:) :) :)

jonny-mt
Jun 29, 2004, 10:01
Kanji become much, much easier when you start seeing radicals instead of strokes. Then instead of thinking 'up, down, left, cross, over' you start thinking things like 'water and standing' (‹ƒ‚­[‚Θ‚­ - to cry]). I can read somewhere from 1000-1300 now...when I was in Japan I could probably write somewhere between 500 and 800, but that's dropping pretty quickly since I have no need to do so back in the States, so I imagine I'm somewhere around 200-300.

Kanji just have a long learning curve. If you keep it up, there will come a day when you prefer kanji to pure hiragana/katakana sentences. One of my greatest triumphs was reading the work —\Š΄ - —\i‚ζ here) being future or forecast (—\•ρ[‚ζ‚Ω‚€]=forecast, —\’θ[‚ζ‚Δ‚’]=plan) and Š΄(‚©‚ρ) being feeling or emotion. I had never seen it before, but I knew immediately it meant 'premonition'. Checked the dictionary and I was right.

Stick with it, get over the learning curve, and Japanese will start to make so much more sense....

Kuro Matsuri
Jul 7, 2004, 04:54
I can read/write hiragana and katakana fairly well. I know maybe 20 Kanji symbols and some Japanese words. I want to learn more soooooo badly... which I will... next school year... in college... My high school did not offer Japanese as a foreign language. They only offered Spanish and French.

MtoM
Jul 8, 2004, 00:58
jonny-mt‚ցA
@‚»‚Μ‚Ζ‚¨‚θ‚ΎI
@this is the way I follow in learning kanji, radicals make things easer and what's more
remembering the stroke order rules and practice writing the kanji in the correct order
and in top speed also makes kanji easer to remember. Befor I begin this method, I merely remeber the first 80 kanji, but now god only knows how much kanji I know(I think its less than 500 and more than 300, I learn kanji from my dicitonary not from the kanji graded lists)

Kama
Jul 17, 2004, 18:53
Well, the question was: Do you speak japanese? [I already answered it XD]. My question is: Do you have chances to speak Japanese in your countries [non-Japanese]? Or do you generally use Japanese only for reading/writing/understandin anime etc.

Inuyasha-the-kid
Jul 18, 2004, 11:32
I am good with Japanese

Jimm
Aug 8, 2004, 12:54
I am good with Japanese

Hope you know all your 'haragana' and 'katahana'!

'say'o'nara'

TwistedMac
Aug 9, 2004, 08:09
I am good with Japanese
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*inhales* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D

:sorry:

himawariluv
Aug 12, 2004, 04:43
Konnichiwa everybody!
I am a beginner in Japanese but I am so fascinated by it! I only know a few phrases and words.
Three months ago, during my last school break I learned writing the hiraganas. Now I'm on vacation again and I seem to have forgotten them. ughh. So I'm starting all over again and I hope to remember them quickly.
For me I think it would be easier to learn the hiragans and katakanas first and then start with grammar and vocab.
How did you guys started out? How do they teach in school?

Arigato.

I can sing Japanese! :) But I don't understand it yet! :(
So I can't really say I speak the language :(
But I'll do my best. I'm ready for action :)

Apollo
Aug 20, 2004, 03:07
I speak Japanese fluently, but am not excellent with writing. -darn difficult when am not in Japan. :(

RockLee
Aug 20, 2004, 03:13
Maybe he's good at eating it (Inuyasha the kid) :hihi:

puKKa
Aug 26, 2004, 01:49
I'm just able to use some phrases and I know some kanas and kanjis but not many.

Im trying to learn japanese but it's going kind of slow since I do alot of other things instead al the time, or I forget what I was doing or something stupid ^^

Giorgia_
Aug 31, 2004, 04:02
hi. i'm quite new to this web site....
well, i speak japanese because i am japanese.
Since i live in Rome, i cannot really say that i actually speak it perfectly.
(i know slangy things but not formal ones)
I used to live in japan up til the end of the primary school and i can speak it fluently enough but the Kanji is the biggest problem i have. I know easy ones but my Kanji knowledge is completely useless. Some of you might know Kanji better than i do though i am (sort of) a native speaker!
(i speak Japanese at home and English at school.)

ZellX
Sep 6, 2004, 23:02
you all still put me to shame i only know lik39 but its a work in progress.by the way does ken mean dog in japanese the kanji cards if not i am reading them wrong.

Giorgia_
Sep 7, 2004, 04:21
by the way does ken mean dog in japanese the kanji cards if not i am reading them wrong.
It does, but not really...
The kanji, "犬" can be read in two ways, "INU" and "KEN".
"Ken" is usually used when it's connected to the types of dogs.
like, guiding dog is 盲導犬(mou dou ken) in Japanese. Not Mou dou inu.
So KEN is still correct as its furigana, but if you want to mean a "dog" by itself, then you have to say "INU".

jampot
Sep 19, 2004, 06:12
i can't wait to have fluent conversations with nihonjin!! i must have patience...

Foxtrot Uniform
Oct 4, 2004, 22:29
I speak Osaka-ben well enough to be understood and to have conversation in Japanese, but I only know hiragana and katakana and kanji to a third grade level... even though I live in Japan. :relief:

Camui
Oct 11, 2004, 05:39
I know a few greetings and stuff, but other than that not really...I really wanna learn though ^^

Shin Asura
Oct 11, 2004, 11:57
I'm high beginner/lower intermediate, working on my conversational skills at the moment

Gochujang
Oct 12, 2004, 03:24
I started with Japanese 2 month ago, so I can read and write the kanas and perhaps 20 kanji, so a very stupid beginner :(

countess_d
Nov 15, 2004, 04:02
I'm on JLPT4 was going to present the 3-kyu this year but decided to postpone it one year :relief: too insecure to take it :p
I'm on a basic conversational level. Greetings, buying, selling, travelling, can talk/understand better than I can read. And can read more or less without problem, except for Kanji :( Been studying for... 2 years now, I do believe.

miyuki
Nov 16, 2004, 23:01
Hi,I am a native japanese.
I also feel Kanji is difficult because each of them have two or three different prononciations and meanings.
I don't know how to read some kanji but easy to understand its meaning.So I can read books or newspapers fast.
You may be interesting to know each elements or constructions of kanji.
As for me,English is more difficult......
:bluush:

ベ-ネ
Nov 17, 2004, 04:10
I've been learning for 3 months. i can read kana and some kanzi, but can't speak much.

//edit: @miyuki

my japanese teacher also says english is difficult. but she finds german and latin very easy!

Fantt
Nov 17, 2004, 04:17
With a few more months of study, I feel like I'd be able to pass JLPT 4 (whichever test it is that's the easiest). Is there any point in taking that, other than just to say you have?

jt_
Nov 17, 2004, 05:12
With a few more months of study, I feel like I'd be able to pass JLPT 4 (whichever test it is that's the easiest). Is there any point in taking that, other than just to say you have?
Not to discourage you, but honestly, I'd have to say probably not. The level of Japanese that the JLPT 4-kyuu tests you on is so basic that being able to pass it doesn't really say anything about your ability to do anything practical with the language. If you're just looking to get a feel for how you well you're progessing in your studies, you can try to track down some sample questions online (though it sounds like you've already done this) and see how you do with them, but I wouldn't waste your money or time taking the actual test.

If you're looking to work in Japan in an environment where command of the language is a necessary part of the job, I'd say that you'd need to pass 2-kyuu or 1-kyuu for it to mean much of anything, assuming that your would-be employers were familiar with the test to begin with.

Fantt
Nov 17, 2004, 05:39
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've gathered, jt. I'm not discouraged at all. It's a long road to language competency - I'm just along for the ride. Wheeeeeeee!

blade_bltz
Nov 26, 2004, 01:40
Well, I'm a senior in HS and I've studied Japanese for 5 years now. The first three years were extremely slow and easy...but fun. We did a lot of the basic traditional culture stuff, and all got inflated gpas. haha. Since this past summer, though, when my Japanese class went to Japan for an exchange trip/homestay/etc, I've been really motivated. In Japan, I nearly doubled my kanji knowledge from 250 to almost 500. I had been using the Basic Kanji book vol1 up until then, and then in Japan I went to Kinokuniya and purchased volume 2. Currently, I'm at around 700 or so, and I can recognize a lot more.

nhk9
Dec 6, 2004, 11:40
I think I would put myself in the higher intermediate section, but then some of the listening still troubles me. I guess it's because the language has too many homophones. That, coupled with the vast usage of casual slang, still bothers me. Although I could communicate what I want to say in Japanese (such as daily speaking), but I still have troubles understanding 100% of conversations among native speakers.

In the university that I am attending, there's a Japanese program that focuses heavily on Kanji and Kanji Goku. But then, we don't get much chances in actually using the language in class.

Glenn
Dec 7, 2004, 14:17
You're at a university in Canada, right? It may seem like a stupid question, but there are those here who use the flag to show birthplace instead of location, and even those who just like to put up different flags because they don't want to be judged by where they are. Anyway, I was just curious whether you were studying in Japan or not.

nhk9
Dec 8, 2004, 04:05
You're at a university in Canada, right? It may seem like a stupid question, but there are those here who use the flag to show birthplace instead of location, and even those who just like to put up different flags because they don't want to be judged by where they are. Anyway, I was just curious whether you were studying in Japan or not.

You are right, the university that I am in is located in Canada. If I were in Japan, I guess the listening part would've been much better by now. From what I heard from friends who stayed in Japan, they tend to do much better in the listening part of JLPT than us who studied in foreign countries.

masayoshi
Dec 10, 2004, 07:46
I guess I'm somewhere on the intermediate level. I'm done with learning kana and basic grammatical rules. Next is ... everything else!! That's gonna be a looooooooong way to decent speaking and reading levels. :( Basically, I can understand if two Japanese talk standard and quite slowly with very common words. Also, replying to very common and easy questions and statements is OK.

I think I need maximum exposure to the language and that's almost impossible to achieve outside Japan (except if you are lucky enough to find a Japanese friend that'll actually speak to you in Japanese :o ).

ax
Dec 10, 2004, 16:01
I am pushed to listen read and talk in Japanese everyday now, but since I don't take any course, my progress in grammar is not desirable. I can tell a ŠΏŽš means, but I have trouble still with ”­‰ΉA to make matter worse, I found many Japanese ŒΎ—t that has completely different or similar meaning share the same ŠΏŽš root, but different ending, like perhaps -‚ή or -‚Ά‚ι, or -‚³‚ιB This make me relate Japanese to tagalog:)

ax

Elizabeth
Dec 11, 2004, 00:57
I am pushed to listen read and talk in Japanese everyday now, but since I don't take any course, my progress in grammar is not desirable. I can tell a ŠΏŽš means, but I have trouble still with ”­‰ΉA to make matter worse, I found many Japanese ŒΎ—t that has completely different or similar meaning share the same ŠΏŽš root, but different ending, like perhaps -‚ή or -‚Ά‚ι, or -‚³‚ιB This make me relate Japanese to tagalog:)

ax

ŠΏŽš‚Ν‚Ζ‚Δ‚ΰ‰œ‚ͺ[‚’‚Ε‚·‚ˁB
ˆκ‚Β‚ΜŠΏŽš‚ͺŠΏŽš‚Μ‘g‚ݍ‡‚ν‚Ή‚β‚·‚’•ϋ‚Ε“Η‚έ•ϋ‚ͺ•Ο‚ν ‚ι‚Μ‚Ν“–‚½‚θ‘O‚ΜŽ–‚Ε‚·‚ˁB
ˆα‚€“Η‚έ‚ΕŽ«‘‚πˆψ‚’‚Δ‚΅‚ά‚Α‚ΔŒ©‚Β‚―‚η‚κ‚Θ‚’‚Ζ‚«‚ͺ ‚ ‚θ‚ά‚·@:souka:

Sumiyoshi’Y‹g
Dec 13, 2004, 00:04
I guess I'm somewhere on the intermediate level. I'm done with learning kana and basic grammatical rules. Next is ... everything else!! That's gonna be a looooooooong way to decent speaking and reading levels. :( Basically, I can understand if two Japanese talk standard and quite slowly with very common words. Also, replying to very common and easy questions and statements is OK.

I think I need maximum exposure to the language and that's almost impossible to achieve outside Japan (except if you are lucky enough to find a Japanese friend that'll actually speak to you in Japanese :o ).

I'm pretty much at the level Masayoshi-san mentions. I just took the 4kyuu JLPT, and had my eyes opened about my listening comprehension abilities (or lack thereof). For myself I agree with Masayoshi-san that I would need maximum exposure of the language (ie. in Japan, 24/7) to become truly conversational.

CorDarei
Dec 16, 2004, 20:12
I'm pretty much at the level Masayoshi-san mentions. I just took the 4kyuu JLPT, and had my eyes opened about my listening comprehension abilities (or lack thereof). For myself I agree with Masayoshi-san that I would need maximum exposure of the language (ie. in Japan, 24/7) to become truly conversational.

In the meantime, there are things you can do to improve. Watch Japanese TV (if you can get it), or download TV shows or anime; listen to Japanese music; they have internet radio stations in Japanese; basically find some good source of Japanese audio and listen to it a lot. Another thing to do is to speak Japanese to yourself whenever you have a chance. It really does help. And, of course, find a Japanese person to speak with at least occasionally. Of course, being in Japan is the fastest way, but not the only one.

Scozwi
Dec 22, 2004, 10:09
hmmmmm what level am I.....High beginner/lower intermediate maybe for the first 3 months or so. I studied at home then I found a place called "Bunka centre" (culture centre) where i went to learn Japanese from a volunteer group, but thats only twice a week(for an hour and half per class) at home we always talk English... after a few months I stopped going coz I found work. At work I mostly speak English even with the japanese english teachers. But I've been here for a year nearly and about 3 months ago I got off my backside and start studying japanese again. At home we speak Japanese (tell u the truth, it really helps me progress in my japanese lingo)
I joined a martial arts club at school its very very hard but Im trying my best!!!
I go to Japanese classes again. I would have gone to Nagoya to learn but its way too far to travel. coz i leave out in the sticks!!!

magwagwag
Dec 28, 2004, 00:37
i really want to learn japanese, just don't know where to start. i only know words. any help?

Nightwalker
Dec 28, 2004, 10:08
Hmmm...well I know words and I reconize them sometimes but I'm still learning. I can't spoeak speak it but I would die to learn it. I sing in Japanese rather than in English. I don't know what they are saying but it's not stopping me. Tee hee. I know stuff like "Sayonara" and "Baka"...ect ect ect ect...stuff like that. I mostly learn that from reading manga or watching Japanese films like "Moon Child" (my favorite movie! Go Gackt-sama!) or from listening to music and reading the English lyrics. Stuff like that. But, ya know...I hope sometime I will be able to read it and speak it like in sentences.

Raymond
Dec 30, 2004, 05:21
dont know where to start! :(

lexico
Jan 3, 2005, 01:35
dont know where to start! :(I don't know how much you know, so I may be making a total fool out of myself.
But if you are an absolute beginner like me :bawling: ; this I would like to suggest.

First learn your 50 syllabry chart for reading~writing Japanese words.

1. KATAKANA: repeat the strokes while reciting the syllables out loud like

‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ...
‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ...
‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ...
‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ...
⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ...

until you're pretty comfortable with spitting out the syllables.
(The h's are there only to say that these are pure vowels, not the English glides.)

Now before I go any further, the strokes may be difficult at first. There should be a million of those stroke teaching pages on the web, but I found one right here (partial; but it's got the first 3 charts) http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13013

Once you're done, then there is the HIRAGANA for recent loan words. It has somewhat simpler strokes.

Don't worry about the KANJI words at the beginning. These loan words from Chinese have their own Japanified readings, and you can learn just a couple each time. Please don't let KANJI scare you away. Even the average Japanese have trouble recognizing every single KANJI, by the way :-)

Anyway, I would hate to scare you off by giving you more that I should, but there's one very nice site I just found today, here http://www.davidhallgren.se/nihon by one JREF member.

Check out the stuff, and ask around; I don't know much, but I almost completed one semester of college Japanese, which wore off in time. :bawling:
Good luck! :wave:

ps. Oh, when you're done with the kana's you will like this introduction http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12601 which has only 4 kanji. Ž„ watashi "me" –Ό‘O namae "name" and two more which I can't read yet. But that should get you through down to 80% of the excellent introduction.!! Have fun!! :wave:

masayoshi
Jan 6, 2005, 09:24
1. KATAKANA: repeat the strokes while reciting the syllables out loud like

‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ‚ Ah, ...
‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ‚’ Ih, ...
‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ‚€ Uh, ...
‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ‚¦ Eh, ...
⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ⬠Oh, ...

Once you're done, then there is the HIRAGANA for recent loan words. It has somewhat simpler strokes.

Just want to point out that the curvy characters are hiragana (‚ ,@‚’,@‚€,@‚¦,@‚¨, etc) and the seemingly simpler ones used for loan words are katakana (ƒA,@ƒC,@ƒE,@ƒG,@ƒI, etc). So as not to confuse ... :cool:

Forgotten
Jan 12, 2005, 12:10
I know very little Japanese, but I am throughly impressed so many of you can speak it.

nemesae
Jan 13, 2005, 02:25
‘“ϊ‚ΝŠF‚³‚ρOOŽ„‚ΝƒlƒƒTƒG‚ƁBBB‚¦‚¦‚Α‚Ζ€‚Ά‚ၠBBB
Well, um, so I'm Nemesae, I suck at speaking Japanese, have been studying for about a year or something more now and I can read about 500 kanji (in meaning, not all on and kun readings though) and write from memory about 300. Still want to do the proficiency tests, but I never knew where do to one until a week before the actual test and it was too late by then >_< One week, I actually learnt about 100 kanji. But I'm lazy, so I'll probably won't be able to do that again

cloud1414
Feb 4, 2005, 08:56
i only know some greetings and such

meninadosul
Feb 9, 2005, 15:51
I speak fairly well and can read 2-kyu level kanjis, but when it comes to writing... ahem... not so good.

Malaika
Feb 16, 2005, 08:35
I only know few words/ phrases in japanese, I can't really speak it fluently, though I really want to ^_^.

Tsuyoiko
Mar 11, 2005, 00:30
This is my first post! I am a beginner! I know hiragana and I am learning katakana and kanji. I started the kanji before I had learned all the katakana because they are more interesting! I can recognise about 90 - 100 kanji and write 40 or 50.
Nihon no eiga ga suki kara nihongo o wakaritai. Kitano Takeshi-san wa ichiban ne?

forkagentsmith
Mar 15, 2005, 09:41
i know the japanese language at a very basic level....
but i am learning it in hopes of going there one day

Rgchrono
Mar 18, 2005, 16:57
Just want to point out that the curvy characters are hiragana (‚ ,@‚’,@‚€,@‚¦,@‚¨, etc) and the seemingly simpler ones used for loan words are katakana (ƒA,@ƒC,@ƒE,@ƒG,@ƒI, etc). So as not to confuse

you really think that katakana are simple?O_o

I forgot a lot of them, after not taking japanese for a while. Yet, I still remember how to write and read the hiragana. O_O

rajs20
Mar 24, 2005, 13:34
I would say katakana are simpler... the reason you forgot a lot of katakana is probably because they aren't as commonly used as hiragana so you didn't get as much exposure...

Although, one thing which is kind of difficult about Katakana I think is that there are some characters which can look very similar. For example
ƒ, ƒ‰, ƒE, ƒt, ƒ’, ƒ”
ƒ}, ƒ€
ƒ`, ƒ‚
ƒN, ƒP, ƒ^
ƒV, ƒc
ƒ“, ƒ\

I think those last two pairs are the hardest... took me a long time before I got that down, hehe.

Tsuyoiko
Apr 1, 2005, 19:13
I think those last two pairs (shi/tsu and n/so) are hard! I could only see the difference after I saw a tutorial in stroke order here: http://members.aol.com/writejapan/katakana/writutor.htm :relief:

rajs20
Apr 3, 2005, 12:29
Yea that's a good site... The way I found to remember ƒ\@vs. ƒ“ is, if you take the smaller mark (the "teardrop") and extend it in a line, it will intersect the longer line at the top for ƒ“ and at the bottom for ƒ\. (Similar for tsu / shi).

mizer
May 1, 2005, 17:30
I'm attempting to learn Japanese :) I've got all the hiragana - not started to learn the katakana yet, but I learned the hiragana really quickly so I am quite hopeful :)

I haven't started learning the kanji because I'm concentrating more on learning how to speak it. I'm lucky enough to have a native speaker to (occasionally!) help me with pronunciation, finer points of grammer etc. There is more vocabulary than in English, but I learn vocab really quickly (just the way my mind works) so that's not so much of a problem. In fact, I think English must be v. difficult for a native Japanese speaker because we have so many words that look simple and innocuous but actually carry 2 or 3 meanings depending on the context!

I'm still only at a basic level, though... The grammer doesn't seem too bad so far... at least, no more difficult than any other language. It's mainly the kanji that make it look difficult - I'm looking forward to the time when I feel that I have a good enough grasp of the way the language works to start learning kanji, too!

Good luck everyone :)

White Comet
Jun 1, 2005, 20:09
I'm attempting to learn Japanese :) I've got all the hiragana - not started to learn the katakana yet, but I learned the hiragana really quickly so I am quite hopeful :)

I haven't started learning the kanji because I'm concentrating more on learning how to speak it. I'm lucky enough to have a native speaker to (occasionally!) help me with pronunciation, finer points of grammer etc. There is more vocabulary than in English, but I learn vocab really quickly (just the way my mind works) so that's not so much of a problem. In fact, I think English must be v. difficult for a native Japanese speaker because we have so many words that look simple and innocuous but actually carry 2 or 3 meanings depending on the context!

I'm still only at a basic level, though... The grammer doesn't seem too bad so far... at least, no more difficult than any other language. It's mainly the kanji that make it look difficult - I'm looking forward to the time when I feel that I have a good enough grasp of the way the language works to start learning kanji, too!

Good luck everyone :)

wow..u can read kanji, i really want to read it but seriously...i can't. I can only read romanji because it's easy to read ^^. I can understand some japanese but my japanese vocabulary is really limited as well is my reading.....limited. But i will not give up ^^. I will continue to learn japanese, well.....try to

Kagome Higurashi
Jun 21, 2005, 10:50
this is totally not fair! :auch: i'm the youngest and i have not idea what a "Jyokyu- Nihongo Kentei" or a "Nihongo No-ryoku shiken" is!:clueless::mad: oh, yeah! i'm a begginner. i'm teaching myself! cool huh?! :relief:

kalau
Jun 23, 2005, 11:44
wish i could do better with japaness language :bawling:

studyonline
Jul 3, 2005, 15:46
Does anyone know "K‚€‚ζ‚θŠ΅‚κ‚λ"? It is a saying in Japanese, meaning "get used to it rather than learn it".

We, Japanese, often use this phrase when it comes to learning English. You see, if you are in a good environment + your effort, you will get used to the language. I remember those days when I realized I started to dream in English, which made me very thrilled.

Funny thing is that all my old friends speak in English to me in my dream. It's so weird, but I got used to that, too.

ax
Aug 10, 2005, 01:28
it matches with english idiom "practice makes perfect".

ax

Mars Man
Aug 19, 2005, 01:58
I'm in the middle there. You know, if I had really spent more time on the language thing while here all these 20 odd years, I would surely have been at the step 1 level by now, BUT. . . so much for the party of youth, the pleasures of pleasure, and the waste of our most equal resource, time.

I can pretty much hold my own in spoken Japanese--some may say I could be being modest here--but I do slack at times, and cannot read so many kanji. :p

Mikawa Ossan
Sep 18, 2005, 00:24
I remember those days when I realized I started to dream in English, which made me very thrilled.

Funny thing is that all my old friends speak in English to me in my dream. It's so weird, but I got used to that, too.
:wave: I remember when I first started dreaming in Japanese. I don't remember the dream itself, but I do remember someone calling and waking me up. I groggily picked up the phone and said, "moshi moshi" several times. Next thing I knew it was like 8 in the morning. Poor guy on the other end; I must have hung up without even remembering!

All my old friends talk to me in English in my dreams, but I often talk to them in Japanese. It's funny how they seem to understand perfectly until I wake up!

.::b|ue Ash::.
Nov 29, 2005, 08:18
I've been trying to learn for over a year now, though admittedly I haven't had much time for it. I know a few words and scentances here and there.

I have lots of books and audio books but I don't have any online courses, which would be neat as I spend most of my time online. Can anyone recommend one? I have one friend who is fluent, and another who has been learning as long as me, but he's spent more time on it.

Damicci
Dec 20, 2005, 03:20
I am still waiting for my Japanese dream, Last one I had I was visiting my friend in fukuoka and were bumping butts @[email protected] on the train when this little japanese girl came over and pinched my butt @[email protected] but what was weird was I said something in english but my friend who doesn't speak alot of english said nothing. and most of the dream was in english. I was asked by my friend have I had a dream in Japanese yet. Still waiting....... :auch:

curwenx
Dec 20, 2005, 22:12
There's something wrong with the levels in the poll... I'm somewhere between JLPT level 3 and 2, but I wouldn't consider myself "High intermediate-lower advanced" maybe lower intermediate at best. If I ever do pass level 2, I may deem myself worthy of being plain intermediate, or high intermediate, definately not "advanced."

And calling JLPT level 4 "High beginner/lower intermediate (JLPT4)" is just stupid. Level 4 is as basic as you get...

Damicci
Dec 21, 2005, 00:30
I have seen some of the questions on a level 4 exam and they don't seem that basic. I wouldn't know for sure but I figure basic would no kanji kana and sentences like "sono kuruma ha ooki desu."

yukon
Jan 8, 2006, 18:46
I would agree with curwenx about the poll. I am between level 3 and 2 and mid intermediate is at the best I would call myself. Level 2 is the bare min. Even level 1 proficiency is looked down upon by the japanese.

xerxes99
Jan 8, 2006, 22:36
I'm trying to learn. Taking classes, and soon I'll start with a Japanese totur. I'm pretty sick of getting by on the 4 things I know and mime.
:wave:

ƒgƒ‰‚Ώ‚α‚ρ
Jan 10, 2006, 12:27
I have learnt something here today. Thanks.
I think I would be an intermediate.

Tsukimiya
Jan 17, 2006, 03:02
I know many words.. but not so much sentences.. .-.
~progressed? lol

[...]
i'm teaching myself! cool huh?! :relief:
me tuh xD

koko
Jan 31, 2006, 13:06
Konnichiwa minasan,..
im new here, i just finished my 2nd level in NihonGo but too expensive to continue here. Now im in limbo & from what i see i can learn a lot from here. Yoroshiku onegashimaaaasu..

koko
Jan 31, 2006, 13:32
I just finished my level 2, & slowly i can see the kanji started to increase in the text book provided. I stop from the class for a while since they increased the prize & too expensive for me. My sensei agreed to exchange language-tuition. I teach her Malay & she teach me Japanese & now we're stop for a while because she's busy. Now i'm looking forward to learn kanji more. Anybody know if there's a website where i can learn the basic kanji from level 1?

Thanks.

Nicky
Jan 31, 2006, 18:38
I guess I'm a "High beginner/lower intermediate (JLPT4)".

changedonrequest
Feb 20, 2006, 18:47
Just out of curiosity here, how many people, foreigners in particular, can speak the language close to native level but can not read or write any kana or kanji?

changedonrequest
Feb 21, 2006, 19:57
Question is this a valid subject for a "new" thread similar to this but only related to my last post?

"Can you speak Japanese but not read or write any kana or kanji?"

Any comments?

changedonrequest
Feb 25, 2006, 20:18
Well time to give up, I guess not too many people here can say that they ccan speak the language but not read or write it.............life can get pretty lonely talking to oneself.

KrazyKat
Feb 25, 2006, 22:24
Why would you think people would be able to speak Japanese but not be able to read or write? What kind of insane course would teach Japanese like that? I'm sure you can find people who can speak better than they can read though, but not even know the kana? I'd be shocked if they existed.

changedonrequest
Feb 26, 2006, 11:26
Why would you think people would be able to speak Japanese but not be able to read or write? What kind of insane course would teach Japanese like that? I'm sure you can find people who can speak better than they can read though, but not even know the kana?

Please don't assume that it was a course of instruction, but let's say that someone comes here, knows "zero" Japanese.

Is in a sink or swim situation that doesn't allow time for any actuall studying of written Japanese, but literally picks up the spoken language by immersion, living it daily. At first using a romaji dictionary and practicing kana once in a while, but never having a use for it, pre-text mail days, but actually learning to speak Japanese by living it.


I'd be shocked if they existed.

They exist and their Japanese is very, very good.

epigene
Feb 26, 2006, 13:01
KrazyKat,

I can attest to what Hachiro-san is saying.

I don't know how old Hachiro-san is, but, in the 1950's through 1970's when 99% (figuratively speaking) of foreigners in Japan were Americans in the US military or linked to the US government, there was no such thing as systematically structured Japanese language study for foreigners (may have existed probably in elite universities mostly in the US such as Harvard, Yale, etc.). Foreigners who settled in Japan picked up the language through immersion and rarely were able to pick up reading and writing, because these areas require discipline. The Japanese never thought foreigners would be interested in their language, and the foreigners were only satisfied with "survival level" fluency. It was only the "very rare" foreigners who gained competence in both oral and written communication. (My personal opinion is that such people are naturally gifted in languages and would have picked up any language if they had been in other countries.)

Perception of Japanese culture and language was very different in those days, and I never thought there would be so much interest in Japan as I see today. (That's probably why I come to this forum.:blush: )

changedonrequest
Feb 26, 2006, 18:29
KrazyKat,
I can attest to what Hachiro-san is saying.
I don't know how old Hachiro-san is, but, in the 1950's through 1970's when 99% (figuratively speaking) of foreigners in Japan were Americans in the US military or linked to the US government, there was no such thing as systematically structured Japanese language study for foreigners (may have existed probably in elite universities mostly in the US such as Harvard, Yale, etc.). Foreigners who settled in Japan picked up the language through immersion and rarely were able to pick up reading and writing, because these areas require discipline. The Japanese never thought foreigners would be interested in their language, and the foreigners were only satisfied with "survival level" fluency. It was only the "very rare" foreigners who gained competence in both oral and written communication. (My personal opinion is that such people are naturally gifted in languages and would have picked up any language if they had been in other countries.)
Perception of Japanese culture and language was very different in those days, and I never thought there would be so much interest in Japan as I see today. (That's probably why I come to this forum.:blush: )

I'm 43 years old and have been living here in Japan for over 20 years now. I am one of those "exceptions" to the rule. I speak Japanese, and according to my wife, as I am not objective about myself, I asked her on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being illiterate and 10 being native what was my level?

She told me about a 9. I was very curious how many others out "here" were like me.

KrazyKat
Feb 26, 2006, 20:35
I guess I believe you but I am still shocked. Learning Japanese without learning to read seems like going out of your way to make it harder to me, even if it was through immersion. ie use of Kanji makes it much easier to learn new words and just being able to read imporves vocabulary and grammar?

Additionally, with a high level of spoken Japanese surely it would not take much effort to learn Kanji? Wouldn't being illiterate have lots of drawbacks?
I guess I'm still curious as to why people would chose to stay illiterate.

changedonrequest
Feb 27, 2006, 17:01
I guess I believe you but I am still shocked. Learning Japanese without learning to read seems like going out of your way to make it harder to me, even if it was through immersion. ie use of Kanji makes it much easier to learn new words and just being able to read imporves vocabulary and grammar?
Additionally, with a high level of spoken Japanese surely it would not take much effort to learn Kanji? Wouldn't being illiterate have lots of drawbacks?
I guess I'm still curious as to why people would chose to stay illiterate.

First off why would you consider a person who can speak a second language illiterate. I think I understand your point, but when I first read the post I was a bit put-off, because I am very far from being illiterate.

Japanese is my second language. I can read hiragana, and katakana with no problem. I practiced learning them many years ago, but never had an opportunity or need to learn how to use them in written context.

I also can read numerous kanji, as I see them daily, street signs, signboards, things like that, and have retained their meaning but never had a need to write them.

Not reading does not have as many drawbacks as you might think. I can always get a Japanese person to read something for me.

I know of numerous Japanese that can not speak any English beyond the usual "Goodo Morningu" but can read and write English very well. They try to communicate by writing messages to people who can not speak Japanese but can read, write and understand English.

Which would be a bigger handicap or drawback to you?

KrazyKat
Feb 27, 2006, 18:39
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to insult anyone or belittle their Japanese ability. I know illiterate isn't the perfect word since these people can clearly read and write in their native language but I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe not being able to read or write (but speak) the language of the country someone is living in. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else by using it.

While I haven't been to Japan yet I would probably agree with you that needing to write large numbers of Kanji by hand is probably not an important skill, I very rarely write things for other poeple to read by hand even in English.

Being able to write but not speak seems just as strange to me. Once you know the vocabulary and grammatical concept it shouldn't be that difficult to transfer it from speaking and writing or vice versa? Of course speaking is obviously a more important skill for everyday life than writing I'm not trying to deny that.

Glenn
Feb 27, 2006, 18:46
1) "Illiterate" means "unable to read or write."

2) There are many nisei in the US, at least, who learn the language from their parents but their primary language is English, and that's the one the used to learn school subjects with, and it's also the one they learned to read and write. Their spoken ability is native-like, but they're still illiterate. If they were to learn to read and write Japanese it would have to be by taking a Japanese class at school, because often the parents don't see it as a major part of their education. By the way, there are specially designed classes for people in that situation that focus heavily on reading and writing. It's similar to the ear training classes for people with perfect pitch.

changedonrequest
Feb 27, 2006, 19:18
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to insult anyone or belittle their Japanese ability. I know illiterate isn't the perfect word since these people can clearly read and write in their native language but I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe not being able to read or write (but speak) the language of the country someone is living in. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else by using it.
While I haven't been to Japan yet I would probably agree with you that needing to write large numbers of Kanji by hand is probably not an important skill, I very rarely write things for other poeple to read by hand even in English.


I'm sorry I didn't mean to come across as if I was insulted. I know it may sound strange but circumstances put me in a position that I needed spoken abilites more than written, particularly at that time. I had/have a family to support and work needed communicative skills over reading or writing ones. If I had the time I would love to go to school, but...I'm being lazy here....:relief: :(

Being able to write but not speak seems just as strange to me. Once you know the vocabulary and grammatical concept it shouldn't be that difficult to transfer it from speaking and writing or vice versa? Of course speaking is obviously a more important skill for everyday life than writing I'm not trying to deny that
Actually what you described there is how the Japanese are with their English skills. Many can read and write English, in some cases better than a "native", but can hardly hold a conversation beyond "Hi my name is Hachiro" "How are you?" I'm fine thank you, Mr.Hachiro and you?" It is extremely difficult for the Japanese to transfer their reading and written abilities to spoken.

By the way, there are specially designed classes for people in that situation that focus heavily on reading and writing. It's similar to the ear training classes for people with perfect pitch.
Where....anywhere in Japan?

Glenn
Feb 27, 2006, 19:22
That I don't know about. I know there are at colleges and universities in the US for sure, because I've seen them. I wish I could help you out, but I know next to nothing about Japanese universities. Sorry.

changedonrequest
Feb 27, 2006, 19:24
That I don't know about. I know there are at colleges and universities in the US for sure, because I've seen them. I wish I could help you out, but I know next to nothing about Japanese universities. Sorry.

Thanks anyway.

SortOf
Feb 28, 2006, 12:40
I can engage in very simple and low level conversation, write limited romanji, and recently just started learning kana. This is going alot slower than I had hoped, or expected...

My original plan, was to read a few books, listen to a few audio sets, do a hand full of work books, and just poof magically know the language. However after I actually started, reality sunk in and im progressing relatively slowly.

Im aiming for JLPT 4 in a year and a half or so...

lost_cause
Mar 28, 2006, 22:37
All I know in japanese is some phrases and some single words...
but I deffinatley wanna learn!
someone available to teach me some? lol