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Maciamo
Dec 7, 2006, 07:19
Millions of people read their horoscope every week or month, or just occasionally. Some people read it just for fun, but others do believe in it, or let themselves influenced by the predictions. Where do you position yourself ?

Studies have shown that people who believe most in astrology are non-practising religious people. Practising religious people tend to find comfort in the practice of their faith, wheras non-religious people tend not to believe in non-rational things.

Goldiegirl
Dec 7, 2006, 07:57
I read my horoscope from time to time. But I always wonder about all the different ways that people look at how their behaviour and personality traits are somehow entwined by different signs. As I wrote in another thread, I am o+ blood group which means something to the Japanese, I the Dog for the Chinese calendar, and a Virgo in astrology. Can you add up all these different signs? Is there a book that includes all of these things? I am just curious.

nice gaijin
Dec 7, 2006, 08:40
If astrology is ever accurate, it's by pure coincidence. 

sabro
Dec 7, 2006, 12:01
I'm a Dragon, Libra, o+.... big deal. Astrology- a vain attempt to gain control over life's randomness. It is a pack of hooey.

Dutch Baka
Dec 7, 2006, 15:48
If I would read my Horoscope in the morning, than nothing of it will come true. But when I read it in the evening, sometimes certain things were true.

Nicky
Dec 7, 2006, 16:47
I'm a Capricorn/Aquarius due to being born on a cusp. Which is fun because the people who write the horoscope articles or whatever you call them, can't ever seem to figure out which one I actually am. One day I'm an Aquarius and the next I'm a Capricorn. But fortunately I don't believe in it.

Flashjeff
Dec 7, 2006, 18:58
I'm not all that big a believer in Astrology, but I read mine from time to time because I get a chuckle out of it. Nothing more.

Kinsao
Dec 7, 2006, 20:47
I don't believe in it.

Mycernius
Dec 8, 2006, 02:16
Load of rubbish. How can a star hundreds or thousands of light years away affect your life? Now Pluto is no longer a planet does that mean all predictions using Pluto were wrong. Or how about before Pluto, Neptune and Uranus were discovered? Proves what tosh it is.

twinklestar
Dec 8, 2006, 03:54
2 words .... hocus pocus :D

Neto
Dec 8, 2006, 08:01
my horoscope always says the opossite of me:souka:

justin
Dec 8, 2006, 10:45
I don't really believe in astrology since my horoscope is always wrong.

Lady Blue
Dec 8, 2006, 11:00
my horoscope always says the opossite of me:souka:

HAve you ever checked your ascendant?? XD

I think astrology has very good assertions when well consulted. Of course, to read your horoscope in a magazine that goes all over the world will hardly give you an accurate. I believe it is very real, int the past people new a lot of things from only watching the sky. And I also belive astrology is a forbidden science (yes, science) that goes along with adivination. It's forbidden in the Bible and I was once scared like Sht when I let a gypsy read my hand and all.. OH, I shouldnt have...

Mycernius
Dec 9, 2006, 00:07
And I also belive astrology is a forbidden science (yes, science) that goes along with adivination. It's forbidden in the Bible and ..
Astrology gave rise to a science, Astronomy, but itself is not a science. It is superstition, plain and simple.
There are a lot of things forbidden in the Bible, but I also regard that as full of superstition as some of you might know.:-)

Lady Blue
Dec 9, 2006, 02:40
WçYeah... everyone's opinion. I don't read it that much, anyways, it's boring... so many super tiny letters... ugh.. Ok, sorry, offtopic. What I mean is that there are things on this world hard to explain.. like the aztec calendar...

Nana007
Dec 9, 2006, 05:42
I believe but then I don't. I am a Virgo and I have a very true Virgo type personality, but at the same time I don't let it affect my life. I don't go by day to day on my horoscope. I might only check it once a month if that.

Broken Rose Ren
Dec 9, 2006, 05:48
Urm...I have a typical Pisces type personality. I believe astrology is accurate on that part. I do go by Chinese Astrology however. I find it more accurate than standard readings. But, I don't let astrology run my life as most do.

Dutch Baka
Dec 9, 2006, 06:09
I believe but then I don't. I am a Virgo and I have a very true Virgo type personality, but at the same time I don't let it affect my life.

I agree with Nana, a Horoscope is great to get some advice from so now and then (sometimes they match with your personality) but you shouldn't life like your horoscope!

Jou Sama
Dec 9, 2006, 14:38
When looking at the personality traits for my horoscopes (Cancer, Dragon, A+), they're usually right on the dot. I "somewhat believe in it" as the poll choice said. I don't think it's a "science" exactly, but everything goes through cycles and I think Astrology plays off that. I do enjoy reading my horoscopes at night though to see if it corresponds to how my day went. 7/10 times they do, but I refuse to become dependant on them.
Some people hold this type of thing close to them, like a religion, so tread softly ^^

craftsman
Dec 9, 2006, 15:00
It's sometimes easy to dismiss astrology as it appears so bizarre to look for guidance in the stars but has anyone ever noticed how some people fit perfectly into the stereotype?

No? Well...I have. When attempting to change a lightbulb, I fit it like a glove!

How many people does it take to Change a Lightbulb and Astrology (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/humour/change-lightbulb.php)

ARIES: Just one. Wanna make something of it?

TAURUS: Well, I prefer natural light if at all possible. Are you absolutely positive that lightbulb is burned out? I hate to throw it away if it still might be useful.

GEMINI: Probably one is best, because if there are more than one, they'll get so wrapped up in talking to each other that they'll forget all about the lightbulb.

CANCER: Only one, but three therapists will be needed to help with the grieving process. OR: Only one, as long as his mommy holds his hand.

LEO: Leos do not change their own lightbulbs. They find someone else to do it for them.

VIRGO: 1.11111119873, give or take .00000000000013%.

LIBRA: Well, I could do it, unless of course you'd prefer to do it, but you look sort of busy right now. What do you want to do?

SCORPIO: One, from across the room, if they've learned their teleporting lessons well enough.

SAGITTARIUS: The sun is shining, the day is young, we've got the rest of our lives ahead of us and you're worrying about a stupid light bulb?

CAPRICORN: I don't have time for these foolish jokes.

AQUARIUS: Well, you see, energy is really matter and matter is really energy and light is a form of energy but the light bulb is matter, and--

PISCES: What light bulb?

sadakoyamamura
Dec 9, 2006, 17:31
CANCER: Only one, but three therapists will be needed to help with the grieving process. OR: Only one, as long as his mommy holds his hand.
LEO: Leos do not change their own lightbulbs. They find someone else to do it for them.

My special friend is a Cancer and I find that he is close to his family especially to his Mom. I'm Leonine and yes if I can find somebody else to do the dirty work for me, why not? If not, then why not me? However, I have procrastination problems... :-)

Live91
Dec 9, 2006, 18:54
The personality does fit with me, I'm a libra who hates fighting and I'm the peacemaker between my friends. Now the horoscope itself is usually wrong for me.but since I rarely check (I remember in 6th grade, everyone was checking until we realize it was not true)

Lady Blue
Dec 11, 2006, 08:11
That bulb thing was funny...

Void
Dec 11, 2006, 22:31
anyways, distant stars seem to affect us, one way or another
http://www.brightsurf.com/news/headlines/27553/The_Milky_Way_shaped_life_on_Earth.html

as for the Pluto - it is irrelevant whether it`s planet or planetoid

lilaznamylee
May 24, 2007, 11:07
my horoscope is sometimes true and sometimes false

Goldiegirl
May 27, 2007, 01:42
The lightbulb thing is funny....somehow in my mind I changed light bulbs to toilet paper and I laughed even more.:giggle:

SushiShin
May 27, 2007, 01:48
I think astrology is good, put sometimes what they put in the papers or th magazines is just a bunch of crap.

But sometimes it really helps!!:cool:

Gambatte ne!

Skullcrushergurl
Nov 30, 2007, 05:17
Not really but I look at my horoscope just for fun.
I think I believe that your personailty may have a little to do with when you're born.
My friend went nuts with it and that's why we aren't friends like we used to be.
She complained all the time that rabbits and horses couldn't get along.
Oops I didn't realize this was so old...sorry guys.

Dec 7, 2007, 10:29
Well,since I started learning at school~teachers kept on teaching me to be a materialist ~ I don't think I am a complete materialist, but I still think that astrology can solve any problem-it's just a kind of game sometimes~:blush:

RegDunlap
Dec 7, 2007, 13:52
Perhaps the only problem that astrology can solve is the poverty of the astrologer.

If they can get enough people to believe what they are peddling, they can make a pretty good living.

MadamePapillon
Dec 7, 2007, 15:58
I never read my horoscope because I know it's just a load of crap...however, true astronomy...

The astronomy that involves the time, date, place of birth ect and star charts and whatnot, in general I've checked out several different kinds and they have all remained relatively similar and almost scary in their accuracy of me, my personality, even my quirks and frustrations. Some are more accurate than others of course, but I've become a believer.

centrajapan
Dec 7, 2007, 16:21
I believe in Atsrology. I don't think there is not a reason to deny its powers. Astrology is a FACT! The argument should be how much does it affect you?

This planet is affected by the sun, the moon. We have day time, night time, we have summers and winters. The sun affects us as human beings. We have low tide, high tide, women are affected by the moon by having the Menstruation cycle. We bleed more when it is full moon. There are more homicides when it is full moon.

I can come with many more examples on how just the moon and the sun is affecting us so why should not also stars affect us? Like it or not we are affected by external powers. The question is just how much are we affected by it?

Another interesting thing is that the Bible has much of it's stories from ancient tales and astrology. The Bible is more or less astrology where it has changed the various start signs into people.

Jesus was born of a Virgin on the 25th. The god's son was born on the winter Solstice. 12 diciples is 12 constellations of the Zodiac.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1234/1392395198_e9fa81392d_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/1392366546_bbeb5a9937_o.jpg

centrajapan
Dec 7, 2007, 21:06
Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary on December 25th.


First of all, the birth sequence is completely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. [S60] [M] These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times: The Three Kings.[S61] [S62] The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th.[S63] [M] This is why the Three Kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun.[S64] [M]


The Virgin Mary is the constellation Virgo, [S65] also known as Virgo the Virgin. Virgo in Latin means virgin. The ancient glyph for Virgo is the altered "m". This is why Mary along with other virgin mothers, such as Adonis's mother Myrrha [S66], or Buddha's mother Maya [S67] begin with an M.[S68] [M] Virgo is also referred to as the House of Bread [S69] [S70], and the representation of Virgo is a virgin holding a sheaf of wheat. This House of Bread and its symbol of wheat represents August and September, the time of harvest. [D] In turn, Bethlehem, in fact, literally translates to "house of bread". [M] [S71] Bethlehem is thus a reference to the constellation Virgo , a place in the sky, not on Earth.[M] [S72]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm

Annubis
Dec 8, 2007, 16:36
I guess I'm not Leo... hehe...

Ever heard of the Orion, the Seven Sisters (Paedes), or Casiopea? These are also astrological symbols. Astrology tells a story in relation to the physical forces in the universe! The story of Persius is quite interesting.

Mycernius
Dec 8, 2007, 19:04
I believe in Atsrology. I don't think there is not a reason to deny its powers. Astrology is a FACT! The argument should be how much does it affect you?
It is not a fact, and putting the word fact in uppercase will not make it fact. It is a form of divination that ranks along with tarot cards, palm reading and phrenology. A bunch of mystical nonsense that sucks in the gullible. For example before the 18th century people didn't know of the existance of Uranus (discovered 1781), neptune and Pluto, so any astrological charts and predictions made before then didn't take them into account. In the 20th centruy the do. Does that make all prediction made before 1781 wrong? Now pluto is no longer classed as a planet, but a dwarf planet, due to the discovery of Sedna and other just beyond Pluto. Are these now have to be taken into account, or are dwraf planets now discarded all together? If so any predictions made before 2006 (when Pluto was re-classified) are wrong.
How about mediaeval predictions? They thought the Earth was the centre of the universe and the planet revolved around us. Go back further and they thought the stars were fixed (FACT: They are not) and lights on a large dome. In other words Astrology is superstition taken to an almost religious aspect.
We can take the satrs into account. Why just the twelve signs of the zodiac? there are hundreds of constellations, but only these twelve affect us, or determine our personality. Funny, I always thought personality was formed by our childhood and parents, not by a group of stars that are hundreds and thousands of light years away. You look up in the sky and you are seeing the past. You think you see one star when in FACT a lot of them are binaries. Sirius is a good example of a binary star. One is a large white star and the other is a dying white dwarf. Will our lives be affected when Sirius B finally dies? I doubt that very much, and that is only 8.6 light years away.
The one thing Astrology did gives us was Astronomy when it shed its mystic rubbish and finally became a science.

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 19:07
Are you saying humans are not affected by external powers? Ofcource they are. That is what I mean by FACT. I did not say that humans are only affected by external powers but there is no doubt that humans are.

Instead of denying that humans are affected by external powers you should rather be debating that it hardly affects human beings.

Mycernius
Dec 8, 2007, 19:14
You said Astrology was a fact not that humans are affected by external powers? An what exactly do you define as external powers, the whether, gravity, a god? Where do you draw the line at external powers, the sun, the planets, 10 light years (LY), 100( LY), 10 000 (LY)? All I said was astrology is not a fact which it is not, instead it is a collection of superstitious nonsense.


Instead of denying that humans are affected by external powers you should rather be debating that it hardly affects human beings.
No, no, no. You are the one who has said it is fact, therefore the burden of proof is on you. That is how theories work. You say a statement such as astrology is a fact and then you provide the evidence for it.

Chi65
Dec 8, 2007, 19:35
Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary on December 25th.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm

No, he wasn't. They provable moved it to this date much later to replace pagan's rites.
And it wasn't a virgin either, it was a much later maltranslation for the sake of men's dominance games. As well known.

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 20:05
No, no, no. You are the one who has said it is fact, therefore the burden of proof is on you. That is how theories work. You say a statement such as astrology is a fact and then you provide the evidence for it.

I said humans are affected by external powers such as sun, moon so why should it not be affected by stars? Thats what I meant by astrology. Now I'm not sure just how much it affects you but I'm positive that it has some effect on you.


No, he wasn't. They provable moved it to this date much later to replace pagan's rites.
And it wasn't a virgin either, it was a much later maltranslation for the sake of men's dominance games. As well known.

Hmmm. I would be very interested in some source if you had any. I know that there are different types of calendars. Don't they celebrate Christmas on a different date in Russia for instance?

I have to say I'm pretty much leaning towards the Zeitgeist theory of Christianity though. But I'm not going to defend it no matter what so I can easily shift my opinion on it.

Others who share the same story as Jesus is.


Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.

The fact of the matter is there are numerous saviors, from different periods, from all over the world, which subscribe to these general characteristics



http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm

RegDunlap
Dec 8, 2007, 20:54
I said humans are affected by external powers such as sun, moon so why should it not be affected by stars? Thats what I meant by astrology. Now I'm not sure just how much it affects you but I'm positive that it has some effect on you.
If you could demonstrate any kind of astrological effect, I know someone who would gladly pay you a million US dollars....


are you game to try? You dont have to prove why it works, or provide a theory, just demonstrate it under simple and normal observing conditions.

Come on, go for it!

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 21:59
I already did come with an example earlier on if you scroll up.

But since you seem to have missed the point. I can come with an another very easy example. Hopefully you will catch my drift. Suicides are more common in colder climates than warmer climates. The sun is having an effect. I am not saying it is ONLY because of less sun light that there are more suicides in colder climates but this is one of many factors to why there is a higher suicide rates in colder countries than warmer countries. Therefore external powers to some extent does shape your personality.

But go ahead by all means. Please believe that the Menstruation cycle has nothing to do with the moon. That the sun does not have any effect on the Earth and its people.

RegDunlap
Dec 8, 2007, 22:22
I already did come with an example earlier on if you scroll up.
But since you seem to have missed the point. I can come with an another very easy example. Hopefully you will catch my drift. Suicides are more common in colder climates than warmer climates. The sun is having an effect. I am not saying it is ONLY because of less sun light that there are more suicides in colder climates but this is one of many factors to why there is a higher suicide rates in colder countries than warmer countries. Therefore external powers to some extent does shape your personality.
But go ahead by all means. Please believe that the Menstruation cycle has nothing to do with the moon. That the sun does not have any effect on the Earth and its people.
The difference is that the effect of the sun and moon are demonstrable in a scientific way. As are weather phenomena.

Here is a list of the top 10 countries for suicide;

1. Lithuania
2. Belarus
3. Russia
4. Kazakhstan
5. Slovenia
6. Hungary
7. Guyana
8. Latvia
9. Japan
10. Ukraine

"Cold" countries like Canada, Iceland, Norway, Sweden,Finland, and Denmark are remarkable b their absence.

Astrology however is different. It says that the location of the stars and planets, not their proximity, is the key. And is totally unproven.

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 22:45
The flip side of your argument if we are to believe the list you wrote. You see no Africa countries, South East Asian countries on the list. Or Latin American countries. Scandinavia does have a high suicide rate. Higher than most countries on this planet.

The planets and stars are dynamically interacting with each other and us.

I don't know how much it affects you. If I did, I would be a millonaire wouldn't I?:-)

RegDunlap
Dec 8, 2007, 23:08
None of the top ten are Scandinavian countries. Their rankings are;

Finland 13th

Denmark 29th

Sweden 32nd

Iceland 36th

Norway 44th

You dont need to know how it affects people to get the money. All you have to do is demonstrate the effect. It's really very simple.

Derfel
Dec 8, 2007, 23:12
6. Hungary


Hope it'll be my neighbor who pushes Hungary to the fifth place.

Dunno, I kinda believe in astrology... but still some people take it a bit too seriously.

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 23:20
source? A link would be nice Reg Dun.


No, he wasn't. They provable moved it to this date much later to replace pagan's rites.
And it wasn't a virgin either, it was a much later maltranslation for the sake of men's dominance games. As well known

I am having a slow day here in my house so I did some research and what you say could be very true. The other theory of my theory is that


Actually it does not state any date in the New testaments when Jesus was born. It was not until about 336 A.D. that the December 25 date became the official date to celebrate Jesus’ birth.

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=107

Mycernius
Dec 8, 2007, 23:25
The planets and stars are dynamically interacting with each other and us.
I don't know how much it affects you. If I did, I would be a millonaire wouldn't I?:-)
Evidence please, site sources please, links please. That is all I and Regdunlap are asking for. Without them you are just making comments on your own belief and belief is not a form of evidence.

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 23:47
Evidence please, site sources please, links please. That is all I and Regdunlap are asking for. Without them you are just making comments on your own belief and belief is not a form of evidence.

The Earth does go around the sun and the moon does go around the Earth. The Earth is a planet in this universe. Humans do live on a planet which interacts with other planets, moons and sun.

as for suicide.

1 Lithuania 42.0
2 Russia 37.4
3 Belarus 35.0
4 Latvia 34.3
5 Estonia 33.2
6 Hungaryk 32.1
7 Slovenia 30.9
8 Ukraine 29.4
9 Kazakhstan 28.7
10 Finland 24.3

source. bbc

http://www.aneki.com/suicide.html

What do all these 10 countries have in common? It's cold and have a long depressing winter. I'm from Norway, I hate the winters. When I wake up in the morning it's dark outside, when I fisnish work it is dark outside. The winters here sure do affect my mood.

I am curious where Regdunlap got his stats from.

RegDunlap
Dec 8, 2007, 23:47
Centra:

Here is a list of organizations that would pay you a total of over $2.4 million to show evidence that astrology (or any other pseudo science) works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

centrajapan
Dec 8, 2007, 23:53
Do you have a link to your stats? Regdunlap. The suicide stats.

I am not arguing that astrology is the answer to wisdom and every answer to the earth or how much it affects us. Are you saying the sun does not have an affect on you? In that case I would like to know your secret. You could become a millionaire.

SushiShin
Dec 9, 2007, 00:15
Now I look always for the horoscope in the magazines.
And everytime it's true.
I take my words back.

I believe in Astrology and other things.

MadamePapillon
Dec 9, 2007, 09:44
Now I look always for the horoscope in the magazines.
And everytime it's true.
I take my words back.
I believe in Astrology and other things.

NOOOO, you changed you avatar!!! :(

RegDunlap
Dec 9, 2007, 14:02
Do you have a link to your stats? Regdunlap. The suicide stats.
I am not arguing that astrology is the answer to wisdom and every answer to the earth or how much it affects us. Are you saying the sun does not have an affect on you? In that case I would like to know your secret. You could become a millionaire.
the stats are from Wikipedia. Do a search for "suicide rate"..

For the money, go to www.randi.org.

Show that astrology works, and get a cheque for $1,000,000.

Pepe
Dec 9, 2007, 14:37
Practising religious people tend to find comfort in the practice of their faith, wheras non-religious people tend not to believe in non-rational things.

One could argue that aspects of astrology reflect traits of a religion, and as such it could be considered as one. Furthermore, one could also argue that religions could be considered both irrational and illogical.

centrajapan
Dec 10, 2007, 19:41
the stats are from Wikipedia. Do a search for "suicide rate"..

For the money, go to www.randi.org.

Show that astrology works, and get a cheque for $1,000,000.

Apart from have completely run out of arguments don't you have any better come back than flaming and trolling? You are not the funniest comedian are you? I asked you a simple question. Do you have a source? I already did a search and debunked your stats. My source was from BBC now pretty please could you please find the link to your source please? Since you did not come up with a link or a source. Your stats does not mean much. Hence my theory about the sun affecting human beings is true and you have not been able to prove other wise. Therefore I am right and you are wrong.

If I am wrong I atleast am man enough to say that I was wrong and don't try to flame or ridicule others especially when you are the one who have run out of arguments. A bit of friendly advice here. Please try to stay on topic the next time.

Chi65
Dec 11, 2007, 00:33
Is there anyone here who can explain, why there must be some "nests" of birthdays, because I keep having appearing same birthdays around me, or culminated times, often related to my family constellation or best friend's birthdays. Such people often also have similar interests or relation topics with me, even if they look different or come from a completely different part of the planet. And in many times I only get their birthdays later on, which means, I cannot simply have projected this, which would be one reason, that could have explained it from the point of reason. . .but I often start wondering and asking thus after a while...
Just to say something about certain obvious "patterns", be they whatever may be.
What are those patterns in your opinion?
Some realised them somewhat similar to magnetic or power-patterns, that fill up with the next and best fitting available similarity, as soon as one person is not there or falls apart for whatever reason. And it comes mostly "uncalled" for. We already had much fun with this.

Tsuyoiko
Dec 11, 2007, 19:23
This poll is flawed. I don't believe in astrology but I won't call it a pack of lies. To lie means to deceive someone. I don't think astrologers are necessarily intentionally deceiving anyone. Some are, but I think most believe in it. I was very interested in astrology as a teenager - I learnt how to draw full horoscopes and would use them before making any major decision. That was before I learnt about confirmation bias. But I wasn't lying to anyone, I was just naive and needed something to believe in.


Is there anyone here who can explain, why there must be some "nests" of birthdays, because I keep having appearing same birthdays around me, or culminated times, Not really an answer, just an interesting point I think, called the Birthday Paradox. Did you know that in a group of 23 people, there is a more than 50% probability that two of those people will share the same birthday? It seems intuitive that you would need a group of 366 people to get two with the same birthday. But go into any classroom and you're more likely than not to find two people sharing the same birthday. For anyone with a Maths degree, here's the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox

RegDunlap
Dec 11, 2007, 23:26
Apart from have completely run out of arguments don't you have any better come back than flaming and trolling? You are not the funniest comedian are you? I asked you a simple question. Do you have a source? I already did a search and debunked your stats. My source was from BBC now pretty please could you please find the link to your source please? Since you did not come up with a link or a source. Your stats does not mean much. Hence my theory about the sun affecting human beings is true and you have not been able to prove other wise. Therefore I am right and you are wrong.
If I am wrong I atleast am man enough to say that I was wrong and don't try to flame or ridicule others especially when you are the one who have run out of arguments. A bit of friendly advice here. Please try to stay on topic the next time.
Flaming and trolling? I dont know what you mean. As for the statistics, I gave you the info to find them, but if you are incapable, then here is the link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rates

It was hiding right in front of you.

No argument that the sun does have an effect on people. THis can be proven scientifically. Hell, it can be proven by my sunburns every summer. There is a large difference between the physical effects of sunlight, and the life changing events claimed by astrology.

As I said, it is very simple to get the cash. Just show that it works.

For your education, here is an interesting report on astrology;

http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.html

Derfel
Dec 11, 2007, 23:39
In this case there's a thin line between astrology, astronomy and anatomy, there are certain effects and phenomena that are scientifically proven, some mental effects are and can be proven scientifically, and some cannot be proven in any scientific way, so science should just keep its mouth shut until it actually discovers the scientific cause for a certain phenomenon.

RegDunlap
Dec 11, 2007, 23:54
In this case there's a thin line between astrology, astronomy and anatomy. No, there is a HUGE thick line between the former, and the latter two. The latter two are subject to intense scrutiny and evaluation using the scientific method. THeir hypotheses are changed, modified, and reevaluated over time.

Astrology is none of that. This video may help you;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haP7Ys9ocTk

Also, a little study on the Forer Effect would be beneficial.

Tsuyoiko
Dec 12, 2007, 17:12
For your education, here is an interesting report on astrology;
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/astrology-1.htmlSites with names like that always disappoint me. If you want to convince someone that what they believe is wrong, calling their beliefs 'silly' is your first mistake. How you say things is as important as what you say, especially when it comes to emotive issues like personal beliefs.

RegDunlap
Dec 12, 2007, 21:08
Sites with names like that always disappoint me. If you want to convince someone that what they believe is wrong, calling their beliefs 'silly' is your first mistake. How you say things is as important as what you say, especially when it comes to emotive issues like personal beliefs.The site isnt for people who already believe in astrology- it's probably too late for them. It is a resource for sceptical and open minded people who want a resource to educate those who aren't sure about the subject.

Since belief is first and foremost based on personal experience and feeling, it is damn near impossible to shake people from it. Anyway, if you can struggle past the site name you may be intrigued by the information it contains.

Chi65
Dec 12, 2007, 22:22
Not really an answer, just an interesting point I think, called the Birthday Paradox. Did you know that in a group of 23 people, there is a more than 50% probability that two of those people will share the same birthday? It seems intuitive that you would need a group of 366 people to get two with the same birthday. But go into any classroom and you're more likely than not to find two people sharing the same birthday. For anyone with a Maths degree, here's the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox

Oops, difficult.

Yes, I was open to something like that, but what I mean, is not the same birthdays, but also close around, most people within three days before and after and then it thins out, whereas at other times there is nothing at all. Same with appearing birthdays of my brothers time, with whom I had an especially good relation.

And additionally few other days, that keep on appearing.

And its not like a class, brought together from "outside", so to say, but friendship and working relations, thus on own account and choice, with other words, a personal energy pattern, and if not, those stay closer than others, thus become a part of my personal pattern, while others don't.
I hear the same from others around them and very often.

In a way, I can imagine a certain relation to first "inputs" of unconscious experiences, that are dominant at that given time of year, like being more outwards, when born in a time of year, where you can be outside more often and enjoy a jolly good humour because of all the flowerings or so, while wintertime people may be more inwardly, to say it very roughly.
This may only apply for your own side of the coin/planet though and can well be vice versa on the other side.

But corresponding types that fill their own desires up for example with a cheerfull summer-child, while been born in a time of year, where everything gets more grey and dark, is as prominent.
Thus there is for example an equal to equal as well as a contrasting thing going on, and the summer-equals are quick in hugging each other and sharing, when they find out (there is another experience, those are often misused for their kindness and start hiding with the years, but open up to equals easily), while some beginning of winter ones long for that warmth but more often seem to need a kind of challenge and (are more sceptical) to feel understood in their longing and closer to death-themes in life. ""Face it, and overcome it, it all has to die some time".

While those closer to beginning spring show a certain relaxed "it will all bloom again, don't worry, just use your time to find out about your inner balances in the meantime to start all over again"-mentality. Good psychologists seem to culminate there around me, as friends, not doctors, always ready to uplift, when depressed one way or another.

It becomes more difficult if you add the other family' member's inputs to a newborn baby, but something is related to seasons nevertheless.

Thats how I see some basics, and it does meet some descriptions from astrologers, in fact, since it once was a field of long observations. Only some relatedness to farther planets make me wonder, although, why not, if you look closer to the way its all interwoven.
Yet, there is a lot of rubbish piled up with the years, that its hard to say, which one still fits and which one not, and thus I remain rather sceptical, but not all over.

But some basics, as explained before, may well have to be considered, because they cannot be just "counted" away, even if feelingless science wishes to do so. Humans are NOT machines, whatever they say.

And a summerchild will mostly prefer open organic and creative examples, not safety walls.
:happy:

Tsuyoiko
Dec 12, 2007, 23:49
Yes, I was open to something like that, but what I mean, is not the same birthdays, but also close around, most people within three days before and after and then it thins out, whereas at other times there is nothing at all. Same with appearing birthdays of my brothers time, with whom I had an especially good relation.Coincidence? If I look at the people close to me there's no discernible pattern - one with a birthday a week behind mine in May, a couple in January, one in Feb, one in April, one in November. Show me a statistical study of a few thousand people where 'close' is defined in some rigorous way and I'll accept it as more than coincidence.

But some basics, as explained before, may well have to be considered, because they cannot be just "counted" away, even if feelingless science wishes to do so.I don't think science is 'feelingless' - science just demands that any claims like these are subjected to rigorous testing. If anyone making these claims is willing to undergo fair testing AND accept the results, then science would be wrong not to consider them.

Humans are NOT machines, whatever they say.
We might not be machines, but that doesn't mean we can't be explained entirely by scientific means.

Since belief is first and foremost based on personal experience and feeling, it is damn near impossible to shake people from it. Anyway, if you can struggle past the site name you may be intrigued by the information it contains.I would add to the reasons they give for astrology's persistence though - probably even say a reason that is foremost when most ordinary people read their horoscopes: confirmation bias. I used to believe in astrology because it seems true when you read it! I'm a Taurean, and I am stubborn, house-proud, a lover of luxuries, stuck in my ways, slow to anger but homicidal when provoked etc etc. I ignored the bits about how I'm supposed to be easy-going, faithful, conventional and tenacious because, like most people, I latched onto the bits I already believed were true.

Chi65
Dec 13, 2007, 08:54
Coincidence? If I look at the people close to me there's no discernible pattern - one with a birthday a week behind mine in May, a couple in January, one in Feb, one in April, one in November. Show me a statistical study of a few thousand people where 'close' is defined in some rigorous way and I'll accept it as more than coincidence.
Well, I am not interested in getting scientific confirmations or acceptance, but I could well write a book about it, with lots of examples and surprises.
It would surely be fun to have such ongoing observations in a more formal way as an individual can do, but so far, I have not heard about it, but would not mind attending actually.

I don't think science is 'feelingless' - science just demands that any claims like these are subjected to rigorous testing. If anyone making these claims is willing to undergo fair testing AND accept the results, then science would be wrong not to consider them.
There I am on another boat, as much as I and O is a rough scale, although surely helpfull in a way, while humans have a far wider range and even in faster or slower metamorphing circles and definitely related to empathy, which for example no computer would. Its a much finer tuning, still.
I am nevertheless willing to see, that one day this finetuning may come closer and then also such patterns would show up, since they are definitely there, even if some have not yet paid attention to them.
The rules for tests are often not yet(!) adequate and or the interest too low to even try it. I discussed this at length in another matter on science foren, by the way and as said, my father was a scientist, thus my interest in that side is as high. Its a not yet for me, like many other things too.
I see no reason for calling it a claim, just an observation for more than about 40 years now, and also not only from me. Its a kind of common knowledge for some, like certain flowers start blooming at that and that time. Only, this flower does not yet have a name hereabout, in the east it is pretty wellknown, also amomgst native indians (former asians) etc.
And its always good fun!

We might not be machines, but that doesn't mean we can't be explained entirely by scientific means.
Since everybody is different, it will not be able to explain everybody entirely, sorry to say, too quickly new variations are born or change. Even twin-researches are only at the beginning after all. But there you already have certain "similar" patterns, and it may well be or become part of the explorations in that direction.

I would add to the reasons they give for astrology's persistence though - probably even say a reason that is foremost when most ordinary people read their horoscopes: confirmation bias. I used to believe in astrology because it seems true when you read it! I'm a Taurean, and I am stubborn, house-proud, a lover of luxuries, stuck in my ways, slow to anger but homicidal when provoked etc etc. I ignored the bits about how I'm supposed to be easy-going, faithful, conventional and tenacious because, like most people, I latched onto the bits I already believed were true
Also taureans appear in "bunches/bundles" for me, but mostly around the 10th to 15th of may, as one example. No idea, why. Longlasting emotionally steadfast and reality loving friends, by the way. More "earthed", if not stubbornly positive than many others for sure, partly oversexed or body-(work or workout) possessed in one way or another, not very near to death themes at all, in contrary to those as prominent "bunches" in november. Thus with a certain assemblance of what is said about them. At least those around me. Many brilliant active and activating artists too around me. I am happpy with them. They do get my feet on the ground when needed, and do it with pleasure. Quite some massages go on their account too, plus teachings of this. But as said, thats my personal pattern. They may be different at other birthdates, but then they did not stick very long, thus I can't speak for them all, only for those above, but there it is more than obvious and fits me well in a way. They may even appear after years again, as if there was no time in between, and if so, then not only one of that kind, even uncalled. They just appear again, and as for the fun, in bunches once more.
Again, that may just be the insurance of new successfull growth in nature in its happiest blooming beauty. First inputs once more.
Thats not even unscientific, if you go and watch chemics or physics or biology. There you also have certain "formations" (and desires) at certain stages of growth (or decline).

Tsuyoiko
Dec 13, 2007, 20:09
Well, I am not interested in getting scientific confirmations or acceptanceI think that's another reason people still believe in astrology. They aren't interested in knowing facts but would rather hang onto their beliefs, ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

Chi65
Dec 13, 2007, 21:01
I think that's another reason people still believe in astrology. They aren't interested in knowing facts but would rather hang onto their beliefs, ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

I have not said, that I believe in astrology, by the way.
I even wrote, that I have my doubts, but something as described before is simply going on, however you call it.
That happens all the time in science too, that there are some questions, observations, and many rules are later changed accordingly.

Strange answer indeed.
A lifetime is not enough to ask every background and no one can be condemned for not getting every information nor scientific amen.
You as much do not go deeper into this, and I am not asking you to do so, I just pass on what I found and will be open for other's experiences in that field. The time may not have come, and no scientist will be my pope nor judge, neither will a pope itself.
I have no need for that, young woman, particularly not with such an answer after all.
I prefer to leave my windows open for new fresh winds.
Be well.

Tokis-Phoenix
Dec 14, 2007, 00:37
Actually i was just watching a program on tv on stuff like this just last night.

Star signs as we know them were invented during the roman times by some roman philosopher, they didn't make much sense back then and they still don't make much sense now.
Even the way the horoscopes are decided for each star sign are flawed, the roman guys formula's for figuring out people's horoscropes via the planets and stars and stuff was not correct even back in his day (he made some mathematical errors), and even if they were correct, we have discovered many more planets and stars since then, which would make the way for predicting people's horoscopes innacurate anyway.



The way i see horoscopes, is that a lot of what it is said in them is not particularly specific and could really apply to anyone.

For example, this horoscope below was written today on a well known newspapers website, i won't tell you which starsign this horoscope is before, but i wonder how many of you here would find that this horoscope could apply to you;

"The changes you have wanted for a while but thought might never happen move a big step closer.

The moon is in place to help you understand what really matters to other people.

A cool smile is the best reply to gossip.

Both luck and new love are waiting where pals celebrate."


Or how about this one;

"As your ruling planet Venus clashes with the moon, you see that expecting a little less from love will make you more relaxed – and the relationship more successful.

At work, the professional way you handle someone who can be difficult gets results.

Luck looks like a soap star"





Can anyone here guess which starsigns these two horoscopes are for? Maybe they are cancer, or perhaps they are capricorn, or maybe you could be an aries which these either of horoscopes apply to you etc?




I think that astrology is basically an attempt by people to make sense of the randomness of life. We are evolved to try and see or not to see patterns in life.
Horoscopes basically revolve around the concept of catagorising the entire human population into 12 different signs, and aims to explain the petty occurances in these people's day-to-day lives by what it is going on in the planets. Sounds pretty plausable? I don't really think so.



I don't really believe in astrology, there is a lot that science still can't explain, so i am always open to new idea's and ways of thinking (for example i am interested in the concept and evidence of ghosts and other paranormal happenings), but based on the evidence and facts of situation etc, i don't really believe in astrology.

My mother is super keen on stuff like astrology, she's really into all of that new world stuff like holoistic medicines and stuff, she's always consulting her astrologer, psychics and feng shui expert guy- and don't get me wrong, i do find such things interesting, but i do think she is really gullible sometimes when it comes to stuff like that.

I am going through a very troublesome phase right now though with stuff like my religious beliefs, belief in an afterlife, belief in the supernatural/paranormal etc right now though, so although i don't really believe in astrology, even that it is a difficult conclusion for me to come to at this point in my life even if the answer may be a bit obvious. I guess it all comes down to me weighing up my experiences, of what is said, what i know and do not know, and what the facts/evidence/proof of what is believed or being is said is etc.

Chi65
Dec 17, 2007, 21:53
To me, people have all kinds of sides, the question is, which side will come to growth according to birth-circumstances and further on influences.

Thus I stick to the points of first inputs or chances, if you so wish.

Who has to fight or long for being in warm sun at the beginning, may become different to one, who was born into a warm phase and thus with light clothes(baggage, so to say) and exposed thus used to the light outside.

The other one may consider any inner "homely" heat source (oven for example) and safe walls, to be more comfortable and relaxed or inspired.
This may be very unconscious, but does its work within people, like the roads available or not with according different outcomes and further choices.

While some are very dilligent in building up, others take something for granted and available, simply because it was at first, etc.

And then there are phases in life, that make you change your views and even behaviours, for example if you move to another place, cooperate with other sources etc. etc. It brings out other sides of you, so to say.

I can very well say quite often, who is born about when, also, because the appearing ones often show similarities with others around me (my very own pattern) and thus lead to expect them to be of a similar kind, which much more often than not is right (the bunches of birthdays).
About others then I may know nothing, not "familiar" with them, but some are always "sticking out", make sense for me.
Not that I go much deeper into this, but there definitely is a kind of pattern.
Sometimes I even get forced by some to see it, because they stay on my heels until I realise and then we have this funny: ahh, once more, its "you" again, hehe (be it in close variation)! Cheers!

Astrology or not, there is something going on, and, by the way, some indian wise elders for ages talk about the same.
And native indians too, they are not lying, if they say, that they expected your coming.
I am very well aware of being in such patterns from a native indian medicinman, for example, because we crossed our ways repeatedly within shortest time and then I was invited. And it turned out, that, like in a painted story, I had the next picture with me, as a present, that continued another friendship from him, also with a german woman, who also gave him a painting. Mine was like the next step in a story, as if we were the same person. It made all the sense in the world, and I will never forget, how he treated me with great friendship and how I also knew, he was "an old friend", because on the other side, he also had an answer to some of my questions, that I did not even had to ask(!). "As if he knew". He must have felt the same with me, and thus ritually introduced me to all his ancestors.
The native indians said: you are like us, when this happened: I followed a given name, an invitation, but no adress. . . I ended up in front of one door, asking a passer-by, where they live. That one wondered, laughed, and the door opened, and here they were!
And I had loads of such stories, silent "appointments" in my life. It comes in rows and bunches once more, when it comes.
You would think, its a cheap film, that can't be, because its so "impossible". Wrong all along, yes it can, many times.
While watching this, in old times people probably tried to find a system to explain this, it may work, but also not, because it cannot necessarily be called for, except by selective consciousness. . .Which means, what you expect, wish, is more likely to happen, than without "tuning" you into this.
Ask any psychologist. Its no bogus. Only the how is still full of wonders.

And astrology also is a way of tuning you into certain sides of you, I suppose.
Thus for some it works and for others not.
I do not make myself very dependant on this, except with the first above thinkings.
(It would be interesting to live down under for a while, because there northern "experiences" would be questioned all the time, would the birthday pattern (not in terms of astrology!) go on there? And if so, how?)

Sono Ike
Dec 19, 2007, 03:21
Hell no. I mean... how can the stars know my future? o . o ? I'm no trying to offend anyone, but I cannot understand it.

...
well, well ʁ ) the stars doesn't know my future, is the people who interprets what the sky configuration blah blah blah... but I still don't believe it. But... I found funny to know someone's zodiacal sign. : )

yumeitsumo
Dec 19, 2007, 03:31
I read mine everyday. But not those crappy horoscopes in teen magazines.. (really, those are BS)) hmmm... I connect with them to some extent. They can mean so many things. You never know. I keep track of my horoscopes and find them to be strangly correct...

Sono Ike
Dec 19, 2007, 04:13
But not those crappy horoscopes in teen magazines..

well, that's a point. If you're going to read horoscopes please don't read them in teen magazines 'cuase if the horoscopes were real, believe it, in that magazines of course they'll invent all!

Dimitree
Dec 20, 2007, 03:22
People who read and belive in Astrology should consider why they have the need something to tell them what's going to happen.

The answer may sound rude so i will not write it :D

yumeitsumo
Dec 20, 2007, 03:45
People who read and belive in Astrology should consider why they have the need something to tell them what's going to happen.
The answer may sound rude so i will not write it :D
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaaaaa

Mitsuo
Dec 20, 2007, 09:20
Astrology is utter nonsense. Number one: it's a pseudoscience. There is absolutely no proof for it. Centrajapan, not to pick on you, but you are confusing correlation with causation. Those stats mean absolutely nothing. The scientific method is your friend. Number two: the constellations are not in the same location today as they were when astrology was first invented. Capricorns back then would now be a sagittarius instead. It's just flawed. However, I do occasionally read mine when I come across it. It's just for fun and should not be taken seriously. But to one's own.

Mycernius
Dec 21, 2007, 00:10
People who read and belive in Astrology should consider why they have the need something to tell them what's going to happen.
The answer may sound rude so i will not write it :D
My irony meter has just exploded.:rolleyes:

centrajapan
Dec 21, 2007, 03:10
People who read and belive in Astrology should consider why they have the need something to tell them what's going to happen.

This is the same reason why people go and see a shrink or go to a church. To get answers. Some kind of guidance. I believe in Astrology but I don't go around studying what kinds of effect i has on me. Concider this. We humans like to think that we have a free will which is completely independent from everything around us. Yet the things around us such as trees, animals, air is affected by external powers.

yamahaR1
Dec 21, 2007, 03:17
I don't believe in astrology, but I believe in astronomy

Derfel
Dec 21, 2007, 04:29
Astronomy isn't something you believe in or not, its a science, and quite hard to deny.

Mycernius
Dec 24, 2007, 00:24
This is the same reason why people go and see a shrink or go to a church. To get answers. Some kind of guidance. I believe in Astrology but I don't go around studying what kinds of effect i has on me. Concider this. We humans like to think that we have a free will which is completely independent from everything around us. Yet the things around us such as trees, animals, air is affected by external powers.
Then why do you believe in it? Why look at your horoscope when you seem to say you don't need it? People who believe in astrology are like people who follow religion. Both are looking for answers and guidence. Plus, as of yet, you have provided no evidence that astrology works in an objective manner along with your mysterious external powers (please list).
Let us take this to a different stage:
1. If you believe in astrology which one?
Currently most of the western world follow astrolgy that follows the greek tradition. 12 zodical signs. Yet there are several more. Chinese astrology, that uses 28 signs within its zodiac. Indian that prefers to use the moons path through the sky rather than the suns, giving it 27 signs.
2. Which constellations do you use?
The zodiac consists of the twelve constellations that the sun moves through on its path across the sky. But these twelve constellations are of Greek/Roman origin. The Chinese (as mentioned above) use 28 (mansions). There are also the dark cloud constellations that where used in Incan astrology.

Dark cloud constellations:
Members of the Inca civilization identified various dark areas in the Milky Way as animals, and associated their appearance with the seasonal rains. These areas are commonly referred to by modern researchers as dark cloud constellations.
3. Why these particular constellations?
There are currently 88 constellations in the night sky, as recognised by the International Astronomical Union (IAU). the only difference between the zodiac and the others is the sun passes infront of these 12, not the rest. But, as Centrajapan mentions, all objects influence you, then there should be no difference between Taurus or Ursa Major. They are all in the sky. So why do these 12 influence people more than the others? Why would being born under Gemini affect your personality more than Orion or Sextus?
4. Which stars in the zodical constellations do you use?
When you look at a constellation the shape is made out by connecting certain stars together, yet within the constellation there are others that are part of the constellation, but are not joined by the line. For example Aries (http://http://www.astrosurf.com/jwisn/aries.htm)consists of 4 star; Mesarthim, Sheraton, Hamal and 41 Ari. Yet the actual constellation has over 100 stars within its boundries, along with 9 galaxies and a cluster. Also Mesarthim (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_Arietis) is a triple star system, some 204 ly (light year) away, and
41 Ari (http://http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/41ari.html) is a binary system. There are also several other binary and multiple stars systems within this constellation.
The stars in this constellation vary from over 1300 ly away to only 7.2. If seen from another angle the stars wouldn't even appear to be aries.
So how do you decide which distance to draw the line? At 10 ly or as far as 100 million ly (the distance that galaxy NGC772 is from us)?
remember that the universe and distances involved mean that some of the stars we look at might not even exist any more.
5. Which planets affect us?
In ancient times the planets where seen as wandering stars, as that is what the name originally meant, They identlified 5 planets along with the sun and moon as having influence over us and charts where made using them. Then in 1781 a new planet was discovered. Not a small one either. It was Uranus. Suddenly all astrological charts had to take in this rather large new astronomical object. Does that mean that all charts and predictions before Uranus where wrong? That people personalities where wrong? Then in 1846 Neptune was discovered, another large planet. Once again were all charts before 1846 wrong? Then, once again, horrors of horrors, yet another planet rears it head in 1930, Pluto, and remained a planet for 70 years until it was re-classified as a dwarf planet, mainly due to the discovery of Eris in 2003, a larger body than Pluto. Also came the rapid discoveries of other bodies around Pluto (now known as plutinos), plus the extra two moon of Pluto, Nix and Hydra. So how do we now decide on which panets, moons and near earth objects affect us? After all astrologists also take into account comets. With the destruction of Shoemaker-Levy 9 in 1994 and the discovery of new comets mean that astrological predictions are constantly wrong, or do astrologists do the same as theists, ignore all the facts, evidence and inconsitances and pass them off as rubbish or make lame excuses for them?

XCrisX
Dec 24, 2007, 01:08
I don't believe in stars telling your future so I hardly ever read my horoscope. I don't understand how is that possible and I don't find it appealing anyway. But I like to read astrology books and pamphlets. I like the way they describe each person's cualities and personality based on planet positioning and each person's zodical sign. I know the similarities are mostly subjetive and depend of each person's point of view but I enjoy the way astrology gives explanation to people's attitude toward things and their life in general.

Derfel
Dec 25, 2007, 02:09
I can't tell about astrology as a whole, I have no astrological knowledge, but one thing is for certain, whenever horoscope tells you: "Either...or..." what truly happens is "Neither...nor..."
They're just writing random things.

centrajapan
Dec 25, 2007, 04:58
whoa Mycernius. You don't mess around do you. :relief::cool:

I believe in the sun and the moon. But I will do some more thinking and come with a better answer but for now this is my answer.

centrajapan
Dec 25, 2007, 05:10
To support my claim. I copy and paste from Wikipedia.

The argument for sun sign astrology holds that everyone and everything is subject to general forces. For example, a person may plan to walk to the shop the following day, but when they see the weather (which affects everyone) they may change their mind and drive there instead. In this example, a general influence has overcome a personal one. Sun sign astrology says that such generally-applicable factors are also found astrologically.

Sun signs are held to represent certain sub-sections of the population. Research by insurance companies within their own massive databases is reported to have revealed differences between the relative safety on the roads of people born at different times of year[citation needed]. The Sunday Times, September 14, 1997 mentions this research and also the remarkable results of a marketing company analysing shopping habits by zodiac sign.

The Swiss mathematician and astrologer Gunter Sachs did some extensive research on massive samples (using nearly a million data sets) and demonstrated striking differences between people of different zodiac signs. These results were reported in newspapers all over the world, for example the Daily Mail, November 6, 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_sign_astrology

Tsuyoiko
Dec 25, 2007, 17:55
@Centrajapan: Thanks for backing up your claim :-)

Two comments:

The first study mentioned in the wiki article says 'citation needed'. That should always ring alarm bells as to the reliability of the source.

The second study says "reported in newspapers all over the world, for example the Daily Mail". I would expect a proper scientific study to be "reported in journals all over the world, for example Nature".

Mycernius
Dec 26, 2007, 17:37
To support my claim. I copy and paste from Wikipedia.
The argument for sun sign astrology holds that everyone and everything is subject to general forces. For example, a person may plan to walk to the shop the following day, but when they see the weather (which affects everyone) they may change their mind and drive there instead. In this example, a general influence has overcome a personal one. Sun sign astrology says that such generally-applicable factors are also found astrologically.
That is the weather, not astrology that affects your decission whether to go out or not. A horoscope doen't say "don't go out today, as you might get wet" The weather and your decission to go out is directly affected by your self and whether you wish to get wet or not.

Annubis
Dec 26, 2007, 18:17
Have you ever seen "Parker's Astrology"? It is a guide to writing astrological charts. It is very interesting and it takes into account the history of astrology. Two or three signs, a long time ago, were ruled by a single planet. It is interesting. I've always been fascinated with astrology. Cainer's website has some really great forecasts. They may blow you away. As to believing in it... well... again... who knows... maybe it's real, maybe it's not... but who was it that said... "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so"? Perhaps the same goes for true and false. At least there are no ethical crises in astrology.. .or are there?

Mavrek
Dec 28, 2007, 05:45
I don't believe in astrology but some time I read the horoscopes.

ShadowSpirit
Jan 13, 2009, 07:24
I suppose I take a unique outlook to astrology.

For one, I personally do not believe in horoscopes. But astrology also does personality profiling. I do pay attention to this aspect of astrology. When analyzing empirical evidence, it is practically no contest that there is no truth in determining a person's personality based on their birth date. Though if a person claims that they represent their sign, then you now know something about that person or at least how that person views themself based on what you read about their sign.

e.g. Cancer: sensitive, moody, comical, romantic, emotional. If a person says they believe themselves to be like a Cancer. Well they either are, or think they are of the things I just listed. If not all, perhaps most.

This aspect in itself I feel makes astrology an interesting social tool and a fun conversation piece. No matter how unbelievable the phenomenon behind it may be.

Oh, for the posters that think their signs don't match up accurately. Astrologists believe that the change in star allignment pits you more in tune with your rising sign (the sign preceeding the one you are allegedly born under.) A good source of reading material (that is assuming you find interest in pseudo-sciences) is Linda Goodman's Love Signs (she's written others, but I find this book to be the most fun to read.) On an interesting note, it has to be a coincidence, but I find that the people most likely to be interested in astrology or mysticism (tarot, pendulums, palm reading) are usually water signs (Cancer, Pisces, Scorpio.) I also noticed that Earth signs are into nature (Virgo, Capricorn, Taurus.)

iceman
Jan 13, 2009, 09:53
first I don't believe in it anyway .... I feel that they use guess for that ,,,
I heard all explaination from great teacher in that specialization in astrology and she's the first person in my country ....
according to her explaination , 4 example : if this planet come behind the earth there is good luck .. that example and I don't know more in detail .

so I think they depend on guess ... like they put theories to their speaking ...
like you heard that if you see the animals ran so that mean there is earthquake , so if they see this planet move from this side so there is goog luck .. if they see other thing there is bad luck and so on ..and that what I notice and I don't believe them
but I heard from time to time to get some hopeful from this bad life :rolleyes:

Mycernius
Jan 13, 2009, 23:44
Seeing as this thread has reopened I shall add another peice of info that shoots astrology down as the piece of superstitious bunkum it really is.
The zodiac consists of the star signs that the sun and planets pass through. Tradiotion hold the twleve. What astrologers do not like is the sign Ophiuchus. The reason is that the sun and planets also pass thoriugh this signs. Some of you might have heard of the 13th zodiacal sign, this is it. What is also interesting is that there is another sign that also has a claim on being part of the zodiac, and that is Cestus. The planets will also pass through this sign.
Astrologers will ignore Cestus, as it isn't as major as the other signs and the sun and planets will occassionally pass throug it, but Ophiuchus has the sun and planets pass through it as often as the other zodiac signs. Astrologers hate Ophiuchus :-)

Aurura
Jan 14, 2009, 00:00
I do not "believe" in astrology in the light of how it can/should direct an individual's life. I am, however, fascinated with the constellation patterns found over the centuries and awed (and a bit intimidated) by the wonders of astronomy.

Jericho Desu
Jan 14, 2009, 02:19
I can't say I really believe it but I do read my horoscope and I'm sometimes surprised at how close it can get. However I believe that if you word out a prediction in a certain way you can get the reader to relate their current situation to the horoscope reading, at least sometimes.

Bellevance
Jan 16, 2009, 22:59
Astrology is absolute bunk. But it's entertaining for many people.

Here's what Cecil Adams has to say (he writes The Straight Dope):

"...how the hell could it possibly work? After all, the stars are unthinkably distant, and the planets, an essential part of astrology, revolve around the sun, not the earth. Besides, what's so magical about the time of your birth--wouldn't it make more sense if your personality were determined by the time of your conception? On top of everything else, astrologists don't even agree on how to do charts--check out the difference between tropical and sidereal zodiacs sometime."