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View Full Version : OFFTOPIC about state indoctrination and free speech



nurizeko
Aug 1, 2006, 22:42
Chinese people are indoctrinated since their childhood

Thats not really fair, they do live under an authoritarian regime that tightly controls the thoughts and opinions of the people after all.

Maciamo
Aug 2, 2006, 01:23
Thats not really fair, they do live under an authoritarian regime that tightly controls the thoughts and opinions of the people after all.

Have you been to China ? Do you have PRC Chinese friends ?

ricecake
Aug 2, 2006, 08:16
they do live under an authoritarian regime that tightly controls the thoughts and opinions of the people after all.




:lol: Oh ... I see,you was living in China during the 1950's-1970's !!


This is no longer true,a grossly outdated generalization of Chinese mainlanders.PRC has lost monopoly over mind-control for 20 years.CCP is same as USA mass media in manipulating opinions of public.Some ordinary citizens there can openly express non-provocative political thoughts.

There is a percentage of China's population still believe in Communism at their own will,I've met a few of them online and in person.It can change if China gradually adopts democratic principles to work and sucessfully expand to a multi-party political system.

godppgo
Aug 2, 2006, 21:33
:lol: Oh ... I see,you was living in China during the 1950's-1970's !!
This is no longer true,a grossly outdated generalization of Chinese mainlanders.PRC has lost monopoly over mind-control for 20 years.CCP is same as USA mass media in manipulating opinions of public.Some ordinary citizens there can openly express non-provocative political thoughts.
There is a percentage of China's population still believe in Communism at their own will,I've met a few of them online and in person.It can change if China gradually adopts democratic principles to work and sucessfully expand to a multi-party political system.

Have you ever lived in China? Have you ever visited China? And why makes you think CCP is going to adpot a multi-party political system?

Let me tell you my experience in China. I woke up in the morning, go on internet and relized there are quite a few websites I cannot visit for unknown reasons. I went out shopping with my gf (who is a Shanghai girl) and I wanted to take some flyers but my gf quickly pulled me away and told me there are plain clothing police watching. I went to lunch with her friends who are all in their early 20s with post secondary education. They started at me with those commuist propoganda talks and accuse me of being a jap/america-lover. We went home had dinner and I usually have some talk with her dad who used to work for the CCP as a high ranking officier. We usually discuss politics and he always ask me to not to tell anybody what we discussed.

Guess when and where all these are happening? Present day Shanghai which has been known as one of the least political-enthusiastic places in China. I've also been to Beijin and let me tell you something, when you stand in the middle of the Tiananmen Square watching the gigantic Mao's portrait while teams of People's Liberation Army patrolling around you, I don't know about you but I found myself a little bit uneasy and had no desire to openly express any of my anti-CCP thoughts. (not to mention the plain clothing secret police which greatly out-numbered the PLA)

I don't know what else you can call this country other than the term "authoritarian regime".

*sorry off-topic*

Mikawa Ossan
Aug 2, 2006, 21:46
:lol: Oh ... I see,you was living in China during the 1950's-1970's !!
This is no longer true,a grossly outdated generalization of Chinese mainlanders.PRC has lost monopoly over mind-control for 20 years.CCP is same as USA mass media in manipulating opinions of public.Some ordinary citizens there can openly express non-provocative political thoughts.
There is a percentage of China's population still believe in Communism at their own will,I've met a few of them online and in person.It can change if China gradually adopts democratic principles to work and sucessfully expand to a multi-party political system.
What do you base this opinion on? I'm curious.

ricecake
Aug 3, 2006, 02:47
(1) Have you ever lived in China? Have you ever visited China ?

(2) And why makes you think CCP is going to adpot a multi-party political system?

*sorry off-topic*


(1) This question should've imposed on " nurizeko ",don't you think ? Oddly though,you've never ever asked non-Chinese like this China-basher "
nurizeko " how they could've vivid imaginations of PRC or CCP without having any contacts there.Go figure !

You basically plagiarized what you've read in Chinese newspapers as if you've actually visited China and fudged those reported cases as your experiences.:lol:

I've vistited China several times,my mother's family resides inside China.I have more PRC acquintances in northern California than you have probably none.I doubt you've ever visited China as you fakedly claim and use it as a cover so you can present your anti-China case.

(2) No one in the 1950's or 1960's ever thought Taiwan could've a multi-party political system !

Funny,you often phantomly boast having some Shanghai girlfriend for a Japwanese like yourself is laughable at best !

Lastly,my family is notorious anti-Communist so don't falsely accuse me and other overseas Chinese for being CCP sympathizers.

nurizeko
Aug 3, 2006, 05:21
Hmm, I'm sure I posted a response, anyway, as I said first time round:

True they arent indoctrinated (well some probably are) but they dont exactly have the freedom to speak up against the government.

They can have different opinions, they just cant voice them.

godppgo
Aug 3, 2006, 10:51
(1) This question should've imposed on " nurizeko ",don't you think ? Oddly though,you've never ever asked non-Chinese like this China-basher " nurizeko " how they could've vivid imaginations of PRC or CCP without having any contacts there.Go figure !
I just asked a non-Chinese like you the question.

You basically plagiarized what you've read in Chinese newspapers as if you've actually visited China and fudged those reported cases as your experiences.:lol:
I've vistited China several times,my mother's family resides inside China.I have more PRC acquintances in northern California than you have probably none.I doubt you've ever visited China as you fakedly claim and use it as a cover so you can present your anti-China case.
(2) No one in the 1950's or 1960's thought Taiwan could've a multi-party political system !
Funny,you often phantomly boast having some Shanghai girlfriend for a Japwanese like youself is laughable at best !
Lastly,my family is notorious anti-Communist so don't falsely accuse me and other overseas Chinese for being CCP sympathizers.
You're right, all I've said about being in China and having a Chinese gf were all fantasy and an attempt to bash Chinese on Jref. You know what, if you're not willing to engage in a logical discussion then I don't want to waste my time here.

Also I never accused oversea Chinese wannabes of being CCP sympathizers. I am just amazed at how some people who do not hold a Chinese passport and have lived oversea all ther lives claim themselves "Chinese" and associate themselves heavily with Chinese culture when they don't have any real personal experience with China.

ricecake
Aug 3, 2006, 10:55
I just asked a non-Chinese like you the question.



You're as Chinese as anyone ethnic Chinese regardless where they reside,or Japwanese like yourself fudged own ethnicity out of *SHAME probably is truly clueless as to the meaning of " Chinese ".Ooops,there is your Japanese connection as the culture is based on SHAME :lol:

lu_bu1977
Aug 3, 2006, 12:14
godppgo, I don't why you're writing with so much angst.


I am just amazed at how some people who do not hold a Chinese passport and have lived oversea all ther lives claim themselves "Chinese" and associate themselves heavily with Chinese culture when they don't have any real personal experience with China.

Any reason why it should stop them from doing so? Are you suggesting that these folks in diaspora are hopeless in trying to adopt, adapt and reinforce their Chinese roots? Just because they're in diaspora, doesn't make them less Chinese or unable to identify with the "predominant" Chinese culture. In case you were wondering, Chinese culture has spreaded beyond the confines of China and the last I heard, the host countries have accepted the Chinese community there - as authentic Chinese, that is.

godppgo
Aug 3, 2006, 12:56
godppgo, I don't why you're writing with so much angst.



Any reason why it should stop them from doing so? Are you suggesting that these folks in diaspora are hopeless in trying to adopt, adapt and reinforce their Chinese roots? Just because they're in diaspora, doesn't make them less Chinese or unable to identify with the "predominant" Chinese culture. In case you were wondering, Chinese culture has spreaded beyond the confines of China and the last I heard, the host countries have accepted the Chinese community there - as authentic Chinese, that is.

The very fact that they do not hold a Chinese passport or refuse to adopt Chinese citizenship and prefer citizenship of other countries just shows you they are not at all committed to take any real responsibility for their call for China and CCP to reform.

ricecake
Aug 3, 2006, 13:58
I am just amazed at how some people who do not hold a Chinese passport and have lived oversea all ther lives claim themselves "Chinese" and associate themselves heavily with Chinese culture when they don't have any real personal experience with China.



:lol: ..... That's exact representation of former Taiwan ROC nationals who
are holding USA and Canada citizenship or passport support TI movement
as " foreigners " for many of their children are born in N America.

You fakely associated yourself with storied China trips and phantom local Chinese Shanghainese girlfriend,you're mouthful of " Chinese-ness " we're indeed amazed.:lol:

lu_bu1977
Aug 3, 2006, 14:46
The very fact that they do not hold a Chinese passport or refuse to adopt Chinese citizenship and prefer citizenship of other countries just shows you they are not at all committed to take any real responsibility for their call for China and CCP to reform.

Come on. That is a strawman argument.

I *know* many Chinese in diaspora who have contributed portions of their wealth to the betterment of the mainland. They're every bit as interested in the welfare of the old country and its people as those with "Chinese passports". That said, I don't think anybody here is working to effect any kind of change in the CCP, though I notice that you purported to have lived in a climate of "stifling apprehension" during the China visit.

Mikawa Ossan
Aug 3, 2006, 15:14
Why not debate about CHINESE issues on another thread that is not about JAPAN??? I am going to start reporting bad posts if this debate continues on this thread.

nurizeko
Aug 4, 2006, 03:40
I wonder how China is going to handle this "communist" identity with an icreasingly capitalistic economy?....its essentially maintaining a lie, hell theres even some (albeit small) proto-democratic aspects of the regime. Will the "communist" regime adapt and change peacefully with the improving economy and eventually step aside, or will it suddenly awaken to its ideological infidelity, and start a sudden hard clamp-down on New China?.

At the risk of catering Sinocentrism, I think alot of world governments are genuinly interested in China's future and watching it carefully.



(1) This question should've imposed on " nurizeko ",don't you think ? Oddly though,you've never ever asked non-Chinese like this China-basher "
nurizeko " how they could've vivid imaginations of PRC or CCP without having any contacts there.Go figure !

Where do you get China basher from? man, some people here lately sure do like to make wild sweeping generalizations about someones wrongly assumed hatred or otherwise negetive and wrong opinions of a whole country or point.

I've got nothing against China, I like China and if I had the money i'de honestly rather take my next vacation there, but thats kinda not important since I wanna see everywhere anyway.

Its not China bashing to disagree with the country's government and it isnt China bashing to state a fact, if mainland Chinese are so free to speak their mind then show un-assailable footage of a Chinese person, in China, with a loudspeaker, proclaiming to his town/city, his criticisms of the Chinese government.

If he doesnt dissappear within 48 hours I'll admit I was wrong. :souka:


This is no longer true,a grossly outdated generalization of Chinese mainlanders.PRC has lost monopoly over mind-control for 20 years.CCP is same as USA mass media in manipulating opinions of public.Some ordinary citizens there can openly express non-provocative political thoughts.

There is a percentage of China's population still believe in Communism at their own will,I've met a few of them online and in person.It can change if China gradually adopts democratic principles to work and sucessfully expand to a multi-party political system.

If this is honestly the case then it does indeed sound like progress.


You're right, all I've said about being in China and having a Chinese gf were all fantasy and an attempt to bash Chinese on Jref. You know what, if you're not willing to engage in a logical discussion then I don't want to waste my time here.

Recent observations of late have given me the impression some people are here for any reason but ontopic logical actual discussion.