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Maciamo
Jul 18, 2006, 23:28
Some people have criticised me for being too negative in my comments about Japan. I rather disagree with that. I see my contributions as fairly balanced, being neither a Japanophile nor a Japanophobe, but someone with a love-hate relationship with Japan.

I counted the threads I have started about Japan (i.e. not about the forum administration or in the Member Lounge) on the forum. Here are the numbers by category :

All Things Japanese : 29 threads
Culture Shock : 37 threads
History & Traditions : 26
Religion in Japan : 5
Literature & Arts : 6
Japanese Food & Recipes : 6
Personal Stories : 0

Japanese News & Hot Topics (15 subforums) : 192

Japan Practical (3 subforums) : 21

Entertainment (10 subforums) : 11

Japan on the Web : 8

Nihongo Forum (10 subforums) : 28

TOTAL : 368 threads


The last person to criticise me for being too negative is Hachiro today. In my reply to him (http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=364296&postcount=30), I pointed out that most of my threads were positive, neutral or informative (stats, news...), and that the truely critical or negative threads were mostly confined to the Culture Shock (obvisouly, otherwise it wouldn't be called that), History and Politics section (because 20th-century Japanese history on its repurcusion on contemporary politics is no rose garden, and this is completely independent from my good-will or behaviour).

Otherwise, on the whole, I think I have contributed in starting more positive and informative topics than almost anyone on the forum, except maybe Thomas (and that was mostly in the early days of the forum).

Mike Cash
Jul 18, 2006, 23:43
If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.

Carlson
Jul 19, 2006, 02:37
If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.


lol that applys to everything in life. mainly with what someone does. but your talking to the guy who at work ate a hotdog that has been setting in the warm fridge opened in it own juices for a month without atleast puting it in the microwave. now keep in mind a friend ate one with me and in 24 hours we both ended up with something close to food poision. Now the normal person would stop there but me i went for a second 1. you know had to make sure it was the hotdog....

it was.

:okashii:

ArmandV
Jul 19, 2006, 02:44
Now the normal person would stop there but me i went for a second 1. you know had to make sure it was the hotdog....
it was.
:okashii:


I hope you learned your lesson or bought yourself your own stomach pump to keep handy at home.

nice gaijin
Jul 19, 2006, 04:38
Maciamo, I've read many (perhaps all) of the threads and posts you've made, at least over the last year. Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.

You haven't created any threads in the personal stories forum, but my first thought after reading some of the threads you started was that you had a low opinion of the Japanese, and perhaps had some very bad experiences that factored into not only your opinions about them, but your decision to leave the country as well. None of this might actually be true, but this is just the impression that I got after reading your posts.

I won't deny that I've found many of your threads very interesting and informative, just that on the whole they ring a little bit sour.

Maciamo
Jul 19, 2006, 04:50
Maciamo, I've read many (perhaps all) of the threads and posts you've made, at least over the last year. Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.

Did you get that from my thread about skyscrapers or the one about Shintoism ? I think you remember mostly the threads in the Culture Shock section. Just go to Avanced Search (http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/search.php), and search for the threads I started outside "Culture Shock". It might be a shock for you to discover that so many of my posts aren't bitter at all...:blush:

nice gaijin
Jul 19, 2006, 05:46
Oh I didn't mean to imply that all of your threads have a negative slant to them, just that the ones that stick out most readily in my mind are the numerous ones that did. Like Mike said, even if the good experience (or positive-sounding posts) outweigh the bad (or negative), it's usually the latter that is most easily remembered.

Elizabeth
Jul 19, 2006, 08:58
Oh I didn't mean to imply that all of your threads have a negative slant to them, just that the ones that stick out most readily in my mind are the numerous ones that did. Like Mike said, even if the good experience (or positive-sounding posts) outweigh the bad (or negative), it's usually the latter that is most easily remembered.
If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate. :relief:

changedonrequest
Jul 19, 2006, 09:07
If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate. :relief:

I don't go through the archives of this forum to research threads that anyone started. Yet in reply to this I would agree that at one time, Maciamo probably started some threads that were informational and helpful to people here.

I am talking about the present, or at least from the time I joined this board. If you take a look over at my "join" date you will understand where I am coming from.

Elizabeth
Jul 19, 2006, 09:16
I don't go through the archives of this forum to research threads that anyone started. Yet in reply to this I would agree that at one time, Maciamo probably started some threads that were informational and helpful to people here.

I am talking about the present, or at least from the time I joined this board. If you take a look over at my "join" date you will understand where I am coming from.
Yeah, that was a stipulation of nice gaijin's original post that I was trying to reinforce -- are we talking about recent months or going so far back as when
threads were created two or three years ago that are now for the "reference" part of this site ?

Maciamo
Jul 19, 2006, 16:37
If you are talking about just the last year I think the trend towards greater negativity and disparagement you are sometimes criticized for has been increasing in amplitude for a while....or perhaps that was when Culture Shock was added as a subforum. Surely there is room for agreement on both sides in this debate. :relief:
It is true that I have posted more rants in my last year in Japan (progressively less since I left), but I think it only looked more amplified because I created the Culture Shock subforum at that time and moved all my criticism of Japanese society and education system in that subforum. So it's easy to find all the "negative" threads, while the good ones are scattered around all the other subforums.

changedonrequest
Jul 19, 2006, 17:09
Yeah, that was a stipulation of nice gaijin's original post that I was trying to reinforce -- are we talking about recent months or going so far back as when
threads were created two or three years ago that are now for the "reference" part of this site ?

It does however get tiring of seeing all sorts of posts related to this particular topic, which btw gives the background for this thread in the first place, all dry up and disapear.

It's kind of a joke, now because the thread has disapeared I am made out to be some kind of "bad" guy by Maciamo. I hope that he feels better now.


If I didn't know better I would say....and to borrow a (para)phrase from Mike Cash.......

"He comes across like a stripper, walking off the stage with a g-string loaded with bills, bitching that everyone is looking at her tit's"

Sorry about that Mike, it was just too great a line to let die in the "archives" of this forum. I loved that line....maybe I should pay you a royalty for borrowing it. :relief:

Kinsao
Jul 19, 2006, 18:03
Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.

Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?

It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.

Maciamo
Jul 19, 2006, 21:39
Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.
Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?

Because I doubt that a single person (apart from me) has read all my posts, and a majority of forum members haven't read/seen a good deal of my posts, hence a minority among them have criticised me openly for being too negative about Japan. I just want to make things clear.

Maciam0
Jul 19, 2006, 21:44
You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.

changedonrequest
Jul 19, 2006, 22:14
Because I doubt that a single person (apart from me) has read all my posts, and a majority of forum members haven't read/seen a good deal of my posts, hence a minority among them have criticised me openly for being too negative about Japan. I just want to make things clear.

I am going to jump in on this with both feet. Maciamo you need a reality check. The criticism was justified, and still is justified. You sit back and delete posts and threads that put you in a disparaging light. You did it today. AGAIN. The regular members here either choose to ignore it or choose to ignore it, but NOONE is so blind to not believe that you are not guilty of censoreship in an attempt to keep your "image" clean. DO you realize or even care, how many people have quit posting here because of you?

Should I start to use your words against you? You know the ones that you deleted out of the posts and threads that YOU made in attacking others and then twisted around to say that because you are not a "native" English speaker that you should be given leeway?

Look at one time you may have placed an number of informative threads here that were helpful to people but that is history!

I am making my posts and replies to you based on current information and knowledge that I have gained reading your posts and watching you operate here since I became a member.

Do you realize that you come across like the spoiled rich kid that takes all the toys home because he can't have his way.

Your pedantic persona on this board NOW tells me much about you as a person, like I wrote in a post you deleted TODAY, and your about psychological tendencies.

Below is a quote from Kinsao and to one I agree with, there was no need for you to reply to "justify" yourself here. Your ego forced you to. I think you are old enough to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you, just based on what you write on an internet message board.

Other members here have the knowledge and intuition to back you up if they believe what you are writing about. You are leading a parade of one. Many, including me, would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you do not give anyone the chance to do so, by your demanding things from others that you can not do yourself.

Here is a piece of advice that I hope you listen to, why not let the people, besides me, living here in Japan be your "experts"? Between a number of members here, present compay NOT included there is probably about oh maybe 100 to 150 years of combined experience compared to your 3 or 4. THAT would go a long way to solving a lot of the issues that have come up recently about your "memories" of Japan. BTW ours aren't memories but more like daily experiences that we have.

Stick to Europe that is your strong point.


Let your threads speak for themselves, Mac.

Why should you feel the need to make a thread such as this if you feel in yourself that your contributions are largely positive and informative?

It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.

Elizabeth
Jul 19, 2006, 23:11
You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.
Clearly it is going to take decisive action. Controllling someone's pattern of behaviors and emotions that have built up over a lifetime through reasoning or cajoling over the internet is a complete waste of energy in my opinion.

It has been tried for years and still the problem persists, actually becoming more and more deeply embedded and intractable with each cycle or new round of members.

changedonrequest
Jul 20, 2006, 06:50
Clearly it is going to take decisive action. Controllling someone's pattern of behaviors and emotions that have built up over a lifetime through reasoning or cajoling over the internet is a complete waste of energy in my opinion.

It has been tried for years and still the problem persists, actually becoming more and more deeply embedded and intractable with each cycle or new round of members.

Mmm....Elizabeth, does that mean I am wasting my time?

ricecake
Jul 20, 2006, 12:32
I personally find " Cultural Shock " sub-forum invaluable,it's a window to spectate the " true colors = good,bad,and ugly " of Japanese as a people.

GodEmperorLeto
Jul 20, 2006, 15:11
If in your lifetime you eat 1000 McDonald's hamburgers and in that 1000 there is 1 bad one, it is human nature to recall the 1 and forget the 999.
Wait, this is McDonald's. There should be only 1 good hamburger and 999 bad ones so it's no surprise.:-)


Without revisiting any of them, I have to say that the overall impression I have of your opinion of Japan is that you are bitter about subtle forms of condescension and ethnocentrism that you construed as racism while you were there.
Yeah? And? Sure he's disinclined towards Japanese culture on many levels after his experience. Maybe because some of these things need to be said?

Hell, I live in a nation that has the unhappy pleasure of schizophrenically hating itself and being proud of itself, while meanwhile having the dubious honor of being thought of as a country of racist white religious fanatics who make war for fun by the rest of the world. Honestly, Maciamo has raised issues about Japan that are legitimate, despite his bias. On the other hand, I (and some other Americans) have endured the occasional snipe (some subtle, some glaringly obvious) against our country. Read that again: snipe, not issue-raising.


It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people. If you feel that you've done so, there's no need to worry about it. There will always be a small number of people who 'take things the wrong way'.
I would honestly argue that Maciamo shouldn't really give a jolly God-damn what others think. I'm not going to accuse anyone of being trollish, but plenty of people have taken their disagreements with Maciamo up as personal grudges. It is almost like they demand that everyone agree with them, and they see anyone who doesn't as "not living in reality".

Well, US-bashing is apparently cool with plenty of people (note: there are exceptions). However, raising issues and expressing informed opinions based on personal experience about negative aspects of Japanese culture is regarded by a large number of forumgoers as wrong. To me, it seems like there is something severely unbalanced with this.

I'm sorry, but every culture has it's good and bad. This includes both the U.S. (who has some good) and Japan (who has some bad). Perhaps Maciamo is a bit recalcitrant in his treatment of many of the issues raised, but I do not find him antagonistic. But for people claiming to live in reality, full-blown assaults on Maciamo's character and personal crusades to blast everything he says that you don't like is excessive. Heck, he's even helped to dispel a hell of a lot of illusions that I had about Japan, and partially thanks to him, when I do leave for there, I'll be much better prepared.


I personally find " Cultural Shock " sub-forum invaluable,it's a window to spectate the " true colors = good,bad,and ugly " of Japanese as a people.
Plenty of people don't feel that way, apparently. Nobody does anything to expose the negative side of Japanese culture on these forums, with the exception of Maciamo. Apparently this one person is far too many for some people. I wonder if people are more worried about "political correctness" than the truth.

ricecake
Jul 20, 2006, 15:19
All cultures have both good and bad points,I feel the same way about American as I often truthfully tell other Asian folks what to expect when dealing with Whites/Blacks/Hispanics in daily social interactions.

Why can't people accept some negative aspects along with the good and fun attracted us to all things uniquely Japanese :?

Maciamo
Jul 20, 2006, 17:06
You're a nasty piece of work. Period. Sooner or later Thomas is going to wake up to the fact that you're not just destroying the reputation of this place, but that you've driven away enough active members that you're actually damaging his revenue.
Haha, somebody embodying me ! :blush: FYI, there was no revenue before Thomas and I decided to merge our websites and give JREF a facelift. Most of the JREF you see today was designed (and written, regarding content pages outside the forum) by myself. The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

Mikawa Ossan
Jul 20, 2006, 18:08
Plenty of people don't feel that way, apparently. Nobody does anything to expose the negative side of Japanese culture on these forums, with the exception of Maciamo. Apparently this one person is far too many for some people. I wonder if people are more worried about "political correctness" than the truth.
Hi, GEL! Actually there are others, but Maciamo is the most well-known.

I don't think that people like myself who "defend" Japan are necessarily being P.C. I think we just disagree with people like Maciamo. Or shall I be more specific?

I often agree that the issues that Mac and others raise do indeed exist. I just disagree about the interpretation of said issues.

On the other side, I know that when I see someone who seems to think that Japan is some mystical Utopia, free from any blemish however so small, I disagree with them, too.

osias
Jul 21, 2006, 01:17
I thought the problem with maciamo was maladaptation or something.
You can criticize, but you can't base your criticism on your self-serving bias and ignorance.

DoctorP
Jul 21, 2006, 03:39
Vanity thy name is Maciamo!

ArmandV
Jul 21, 2006, 04:44
Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.

RockLee
Jul 21, 2006, 04:45
You know what, I'm sick of this. Please stay ontopic, and stop with all the childish behavior for crying out loud.

Elizabeth
Jul 21, 2006, 04:58
Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.
I think he's admitted pretty much the same himself -- although there's a big distinction between opinions on Japan and management style, ie ethical treatment of members of the board he administers.

changedonrequest
Jul 21, 2006, 07:57
The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

Since you brought this topic up Maciamo , and in 100% seriousness, what would it take to "buy" you out of here?

Every man has his price you know. It's easy just think of any dollar, euro, yen, peso, mark amount and put it here.

ArmandV
Jul 21, 2006, 08:09
Since you brought this topic up Maciamo , and in 100% seriousness, what would it take to "buy" you out of here?

Every man has his price you know. It's easy just think of any dollar, euro, yen, peso, mark amount and put it here.


Make him an offer he can't refuse.

changedonrequest
Jul 21, 2006, 08:14
Make him an offer he can't refuse.

Maybe he'd sell it for a :sing:or two. :singer:

I would say at the current pace of things it couldn't be worth all that much for all the headaches that are dealt out here.

Elizabeth
Jul 21, 2006, 12:48
Maybe he'd sell it for a :sing:or two. :singer:
I would say at the current pace of things it couldn't be worth all that much for all the headaches that are dealt out here.
Deal with it like you would anyone who is deeply socially and emotionally delayed (NOT retarted :p), whom I would consider almost a small child trying to survive in a grown up world, and it isn't being malicious or resentful by saying that but I think it is probably very close to the crux of the matter. Plus, it takes most of the sting and zap out of their vaunted powers. :relief:

GodEmperorLeto
Jul 21, 2006, 14:43
I don't think that people like myself who "defend" Japan are necessarily being P.C. I think we just disagree with people like Maciamo. Or shall I be more specific?

I often agree that the issues that Mac and others raise do indeed exist. I just disagree about the interpretation of said issues.


Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.


It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people.

These are constructive. More to the point, they are not attacks upon Maciamo's character.

You guys don't know Maciamo, you don't live with him, you have no idea what he is like. You simply know how you interpret what he's written.

You don't like Maciamo? Fine. Great. You deserve a cookie. But I've also got to admit, it disgusts me that people would want to silence somebody they disagree with, either with cash or banning, when that person is not simply flaming or trolling (some responses, however, border on flaming and trolling). His crime is taking stands that people heartily disagree with, and oftentimes refusing to budge, but that's it, as far as I've seen. If he's abused his powers as a moderator/administrator, then perhaps disciplinary action is called for, yeah, like a reduction in status. However, it sickens me when people would rather have a voice of disagreement silenced, and people who advocate such action have too much in common with fascists for my taste. Maybe both groups need to grow a thicker skin.

There's a quote I'd like to recall:

Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded.

DoctorP
Jul 21, 2006, 14:52
Maciamo, some of your posts are informative, but quite a few are negative. I find it strange that you lived here for as long as you did and only found negative things to write about...or at least you only remember the negative aspects.


You have been banned for the following reason:
None

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


Here is another example of your poor attitude. I have not posted anything even remotely distressing on Eupedia but you saw fit to ban me...again "it's my ball, play my way or else!" You never did have friends as a kid did you...and you never will as an adult. You can not handle people with different views than yourself.

changedonrequest
Jul 21, 2006, 17:21
His crime is taking stands that people heartily disagree with, and oftentimes refusing to budge, but that's it, as far as I've seen. If he's abused his powers as a moderator/administrator, then perhaps disciplinary action is called for, yeah, like a reduction in status. However, it sickens me when people would rather have a voice of disagreement silenced, and people who advocate such action have too much in common with fascists for my taste. Maybe both groups need to grow a thicker skin.


First off odds are you haven't seen or read the threads in question because they were deleted by him, posts, threads everything, before you got the chance to read them.

So there is a high probability that you are making these comments without knowing the entire picture. Can't say as I blame you, hell I might think the same way as you do if I only saw 1/3 of the picture and only the 1/3 that puts him in a "good" light and makes it seem that everyone else like me is picking on him.

Bringing up "cultural" differences and issues is fine, it is helpful for any and all, just don't go all haywire because people post comments that are contradictory to yours. And don't always expect that what your experience was, was the "norm" when in good probability it was just a blip on the screen. Yet that is pretty much what he has been pushing or trying to push down peoples throats here.

From the sound of numerous comments that he made here his @4 years of living here were strife with confrontation. Hell I've been here 5 times as long as he was, oh and I still am here, and I have seen 1/10 of the problems he had, not saying that he didn't have the problems, but I am suggesting that he was just as much of the problem as well.

He quite possibly brought the misunderstanding upon himself and refuses to accept or acknowledge that possiblity exists and lays the "blame" entirely at the feet of Japanese society. That is where I take offense with his commentary.

Forgot something here; I don't know about anyone else but a disagreement or discussion, agreeing to disagree, that's fine, that's life. No one is suggesting silencing anyone, at least not me anyway, all I would appreciate and expect is that EQUAL respect given to all members and their opinions and posts. Also that language used, no matter if that person is Admin or "average" member stay within the boundaries of that respectfulness. That is a part of the "rules" or "guidelines" to posting here and when the creator of those very rules decides for whatever reason NOT to follow them, it is fair for the rest of the membership to question or disagree.

If you want examples there are plenty out there.

As a "wise" man once reminded me; "You should be old enough to know that nothing stops a conversation faster than the appearance of someone who actually knows what he is talking about."

Kinsao
Jul 21, 2006, 19:50
I really wanted to just make my comment and leave this thread alone, but I never know when to keep my mouth shut. :bluush: So here goes...

Maciamo has posted a number of things I have disagreed with. There are also some times that I have disliked his attitude/way of expression. However, I have no problem with the fact that he posts negative things about his experiences in Japan. It's exactly that - his experiences. Not a definitive 'this is what Japan and Japanese people are like'. Sometimes people - including myself - have felt that his view is skewed, either by his external situation in Japan or by his own mindset/personality tendencies. In those cases, this is perfectly open for debate, and people have indeed pointed out where and why their view is different from Maciamo's. We are all perfectly free to disagree with him, and I certainly do, on some issues - I can't recall exact threads, but there was one discussion a while ago that touched on Japanese national characteristics, and where I felt Mac was saying that his intelligence/way of thinking was 'superior' to people who didn't think/reason the way he did; also I have disagreed with him on matters of religion, for example on the 'religious people are weaker than atheistic people' thread. But somehow, these differences of view don't seem to bug me as much as they do some people on here.

My thought is that it's not really differences of view to Maciamo that is getting people worked up. Probably most people on here have different view from me on various things but mostly we manage to get along all together. It is more of 'management style' and the administration of the forum that is annoying people. They feel that they haven't been treated fairly; maybe that their post got deleted, or they were banned without a good enough reason, or something like that. All of which are fair arguments and should be brought up in an open way so that it can be resolved.

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, though... does it really matter whether Maciamo made negative threads? Is it really such a big deal? I can understand that newer people to the forum, seeing these all together, might have got a bit of a negative impression of life in Japan, but as I have said, these things were contestable (and contested!) and based on personal experience. This is an internet forum after all, not a 'traveller's guide to Japan' or something.

Also, the fact that Mac's more positive contributions are in the past doesn't make them less positive. The information sections and guides still exist; they don't disappear when he's having a bad day. :souka:

I have a feeling that the way this thread has gone is a ferment of revolt against the way the forum is run, and even the fact that Maciamo felt the need to start this thread indicates a sense that 'all is not well'. :kanashii: Administrative/management problems are best sorted out in a spirit of openness and rational discussion, but it seems there are some people on the forum for whom everything is getting just a little too much... exasperation... :kanashii:

Elizabeth
Jul 21, 2006, 22:07
Here is another example of your poor attitude. I have not posted anything even remotely distressing on Eupedia but you saw fit to ban me...again "it's my ball, play my way or else!" You never did have friends as a kid did you...and you never will as an adult. You can not handle people with different views than yourself.
I was also banned there recently, after not posting anything in weeks. Airing these grievances publicly even simply pointing out the facts it should be obvious by now alone will not create an atmosphere for change. Although anyone who has the time and motivation to apparently do little but sow dissension for themselves and others around them deserves much more sympathy than anger in my mind.

RockLee
Jul 21, 2006, 22:40
After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why :)

Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24072

Elizabeth
Jul 21, 2006, 22:51
After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why :)
Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24072
The reasons given to me were three : not having sufficient interest in Europe, posting on this board which is hostile to Eupedia, and that my presence overall had a negative impact on the environment there. :souka:

Mike Cash
Jul 21, 2006, 23:21
This place gets more like a playground sandbox every day.

And I mean a playground sandbox in a park with LOTS of cats, if you know what I mean.

changedonrequest
Jul 21, 2006, 23:27
Kinsao, I have no problems what so ever with the topics that Maciamo has started, in fact I give him a "ton" of credit for taking the time to write those rather lengthly and detailed posts that he wrote his "history" and that is the key "history" is where his strengths lay.

Since I have been a member here I have encountered a "different" Maciamo than many of the more "veteran" members here.

My opposition to many of his posts and administration of this site, lies totally in his adamant refusal to;

1stly admit that his point of view is his alone, and not a statement of Japanese people in general.

2ndly that his presumption that Japanese people should accept him, looks regardless, as a Japanese person, even though he is obviously caucasian and the Japanese people are not and his presumption that just because he has "P.R." status he should be suddenly accepted by, and this is a huge point, by an ethnocentric society that has absolutely zero caucasian nationals/citizens as a member of "their" society.

3rdly that his adamant refusal to allow for the fact that "he" and not the Japanese people are at fault for the misunderstandings and discrimination that he "MAY" have faced or experienced whilst living here in Japan.

4thly and finally that he has a determined mindset that everyone that disagrees with him is an "enemy", when that is the farthest thing from the truth. His, Macaimo's actions, deleting posts, removing reputation points, removing threads that make him appear less than "normal" are overt acts of censorship and call into discussion/question his "fittness" to be an admin on this site. His evidently childish behaviour causes many to take pause and consider whether or not they want to continue posting on this site.

This site has much to be proud of....yet there are countless members/CUSTOMERS that no longer are here because of the arrogance and possible "instability" of one of the Admin.

Kinsao it doesnt matter that Maciamo made negative posts... that is the least of the problem...like I wrote in a precious post, letting people know the "good" and "bad" of any society and people is/are useful. BUT forcing people to accept his and HIS alone views of a situation is downright wrong. Plus his actions towards members that disagree with him and his disregard the normally accepted "rules" of behaviour on a message board like this are the main concern.

Deleting posts and threads that make him appear less than "acceptable" is censorship, there is no other word in the dictionary for it. Playing with members post counts and rep' points is childish at best....can you think of anything else?

Like I wrote on another post, and to para-phrase that comment, if you have only read 1/3 of the recent posts and comments that Maciamo has made in reply to the "current" discussion, then I would also "take" offense" or try to defend him. BUT and this is a huge but, too many, numerous posts were deleted, that were directly related to this conversation, make Maciamo out to be the marytr in all of this......if you had the opportunity to view all the associated threads and posts that are connected to this, I think that you may/might have a different opinion.

Maciamo is counting on his "rep" to carry him over in this current dispute.....I am the ultimate optimist, tomorrow is another day, and I every pray and hope that things here get back to normal, with or without Maciamo.

Mike Cash
Jul 21, 2006, 23:30
Haha, somebody embodying me ! :blush: FYI, there was no revenue before Thomas and I decided to merge our websites and give JREF a facelift. Most of the JREF you see today was designed (and written, regarding content pages outside the forum) by myself. The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

Yes, we had guessed as much. That's why I have despaired of ever having principled, mature, even-handed, ethical administration of JREF. Yet some people seem to enjoy indulging themselves in wishful thinking, believing that there is a possibility of change for the better.

Many seem to have some idea that Thomas is going to play Prince Charming on a white charger and come dashing in to save JREF. I came to the realization today that there is no sound, logical basis for thinking that. It's very much like little kids who are tyrranized by a bully at school wistfully fantasizing about an imaginary big brother who, if he were there, would stomp the snot out of his tormenter. Sort of sad, really.

changedonrequest
Jul 21, 2006, 23:30
Rock I must give you credit, my first impressions were not that "great" but I must admit now that you seem to have a decent and "level" head about you. Well you probably had all those "atributes" about you beforehand as well.

:bow: Cheers!

DoctorP
Jul 22, 2006, 07:04
After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why :)
Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24072


Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?:relief:

changedonrequest
Jul 22, 2006, 07:46
Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?:relief:

btw I hit the link and it doesnt work and because I asked Thomas to remove my name from the data base there under my handle n/a replaces the title.

There are a few others over there as well with the n/a title as well.

Elizabeth
Jul 22, 2006, 08:00
Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?:relief:
It is still possible to browse and read threads just not much else.

RockLee
Jul 22, 2006, 11:13
It is still possible to browse and read threads just not much else.Exactly :)

Elizabeth
Jul 22, 2006, 21:07
Exactly :)
Thanks Rock ! As they say in Japanese, it's usually easier to "Kusai mono ni wa futa wo suru" (Cover up a foul smell)....:okashii:

but your assistance and intervention really saved the day
(Watari ni fune, offered a boat to cross on). :cool:

So we don't all end up as carp on the cutting board...(Manaita no ue no koi). :relief::wave:

RockLee
Jul 22, 2006, 21:38
"Kusai mono ni wa futa wo suru" (Cover up a foul smell).Ohh, I got to remember this one ! Thanks :)

@Hachiro: I can still look up the page even when I'm not logged in to Eupedia :?

Anyways, here's the message:


Unactive JREF members removed from memberlist

I would like to announce that I have removed all users who joined the forum on JREF (before the split) and never posted on or visited the Eupedia Forum. Naturally, all the members who have participated in threads here before the split cannot be removed without compromising the threads in which they participated. Members who have never posted but did visit Eupedia (i.e. expressed some interest) after the split were not removed either.

DoctorP
Jul 23, 2006, 00:59
Thanks Rock, but even after clearing cookies (so that I would no longer be logged in) I could not view the message. No matter.

DoctorP
Jul 23, 2006, 01:02
I would like to announce that I have removed all users who joined the forum on JREF (before the split) and never posted on or visited the Eupedia Forum. Naturally, all the members who have participated in threads here before the split cannot be removed without compromising the threads in which they participated. Members who have never posted but did visit Eupedia (i.e. expressed some interest) after the split were not removed either.


After reading the message, it makes no sense. It only talks about removing members...not banning them! Must be a problem with my understanding of the English language. But, as I said, not a problem.

Mikawa Ossan
Jul 23, 2006, 08:57
Yes, CC1 is right. I PMed Thomas and asked to be removed from Eupedia. If you look at any of my posts there, I was not banned, but I was definately removed.

Elizabeth
Jul 23, 2006, 09:30
CCI and I are the only ones I'm aware of that have received bans. Other JREF members no longer registered at Eupedia were apparently removed through request or involuntarily through a purging of the rolls.

changedonrequest
Jul 23, 2006, 10:01
CCI and I are the only ones I'm aware of that have received bans. Other JREF members no longer registered at Eupedia were apparently removed through request or involuntarily through a purging of the rolls.

Could you 2 share with the rest of us here the "dirty secrets" why you were banned.........:okashii: :okashii: :sorry:,

Are you two into some kind of long distance hanky panky that you took over to Europe? :balloon: :lol:

DoctorP
Jul 23, 2006, 10:03
I would guess that you would need to search the forums for all posts made by either of us and find the questionable ones...of which there are none.

It boils down to the fact that Maciamo just doesn't like people who disagree with him.

changedonrequest
Jul 23, 2006, 10:06
I know, but I came to a huge realization that no matter what he does he can't take away my dignity or spirit.

And I am trying to keep a sense of humour, now when I think of him, I just see him as..................:wave:

Elizabeth
Jul 23, 2006, 10:21
It's a ghost town in Europe these days. Apparently no one else finds it interesting either to be there without us. :p Wow, such power we wield. :cool: :lol:

changedonrequest
Jul 23, 2006, 10:28
It's a ghost town in Europe these days. Apparently no one else finds it interesting either to be there without us. :p Wow, such power we wield. :cool: :lol:

And that I think is the answer to the million dollar question of why things around here get goofy at times.:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bikkuri:

Maciamo
Jul 24, 2006, 04:27
Yes, CC1 is right. I PMed Thomas and asked to be removed from Eupedia. If you look at any of my posts there, I was not banned, but I was definately removed.

That was Thomas' mistake. He shouldn't have done that. People who don't want to participate on Eupedia anymore but have posted there before should be banned, otherwise it creates problems with the database, as with your old posts and Mike Cash's old posts. Thomas didn't even consult me before doing this, although he does not take care of Eupedia otherwise. Talk about one-way decision ! Unlike splitting or deleting threads, deleting members from the database is irreversible, and it does compromise whole threads.

Maciamo
Jul 24, 2006, 04:29
I would guess that you would need to search the forums for all posts made by either of us and find the questionable ones...of which there are none.

It boils down to the fact that Maciamo just doesn't like people who disagree with him.

Many posts in this thread and a few recent others about me (even behind my back) are questionable and this goes well beyond disagrement...

DoctorP
Jul 24, 2006, 04:36
Many posts in this thread and a few recent others about me (even behind my back) are questionable and this goes well beyond disagrement...


Please explain how I can make posts behind your back? This is a public forum, not IM!

changedonrequest
Jul 24, 2006, 08:23
Thomas didn't even consult me before doing this, although he does not take care of Eupedia otherwise. Talk about one-way decision !

Since you brought this one up there is one question I have for you;

"Do you consult with Thomas before you start any administrating here?

This sounds like something that should be handled between the two of you and not on the open board.



508

ghettocities
Jul 24, 2006, 19:33
Some people have criticised me for being too negative ..


I think you are a great person ever since I first read your posts years ago. At first I was acting like a child on the forum and you all were the ones that helped me grow up and be more respectful. In a way you could say you changed my life for the better :) I mean I still do some not-so-nice stuff offline but from where I used to be to where I am now on the forum is me a lot more respecting of others. Thanks again Moderators.

Josh

changedonrequest
Jul 24, 2006, 20:43
Thanks again Moderators.

I'm sure you are aware that there are huge differences between the Moderator's and Admin here.:relief:

RockLee
Jul 24, 2006, 22:15
"Do you consult with Thomas before you start any administrating here?Thomas administrates and nothing but that, he doesn't moderate. He thinks as an administrator he should only bother about the technical wellbeing of Jref. So there you go.

Dutch Baka
Jul 24, 2006, 22:18
This sounds like something that should be handled between the two of you and not on the open board.



508

AGREE on this !!!!

changedonrequest
Jul 24, 2006, 22:30
Thomas administrates and nothing but that, he doesn't moderate. He thinks as an administrator he should only bother about the technical wellbeing of Jref. So there you go.

Rock thanks for the reply;

Be nice if the other "half" of the team would take the same approach and leave the "moderating" to the Mod's. I think that would save many a headache and misunderstandings amongst everyone.

I am sure everyone is quite familiar with the term micro-managing. From my perspective the Mod's here do a pretty decent and efficient job, even when I dont always agree with their opinions....:eek: :love: Be nice to let them be able to do their jobs without having to look over their shoulders all the time.

Elizabeth
Jul 24, 2006, 22:41
Having two or more co-heads running any organization or company is usually a recipe for disaster, especially as well as it appears these two knew each other when Thomas brought him on as a full partner.

ArmandV
Jul 25, 2006, 00:24
Having two or more co-heads running any organization or company is usually a recipe for disaster, especially as well as it appears these two knew each other when Thomas brought him on as a full partner.

Would Thomas bring in someone he didn't know?

Elizabeth
Jul 25, 2006, 00:35
Would Thomas bring in someone he didn't know?
From what I've been told and what should be obvious to everyone is he didn't know him as well as he does now. At least that is the most diplomatic way I can phrase it. :relief:

RockLee
Jul 25, 2006, 02:11
From what I've been told and what should be obvious to everyone is he didn't know him as well as he does now. At least that is the most diplomatic way I can phrase it. :relief:That goes for both, if I may add ;-)

Mike Cash
Jul 25, 2006, 04:03
You may add.

But I can guess which has caused the other the most headaches and regrets.

RockLee
Jul 25, 2006, 05:39
You Reap What You Sow!

If proper action would've been taken at the beginning, things might have turned out different.

changedonrequest
Jul 25, 2006, 07:30
You Reap What You Sow!

If proper action would've been taken at the beginning, things might have turned out different.

Is that an assumption that things can not change now?

RockLee
Jul 25, 2006, 13:31
Things CAN change, and I hope they will.

changedonrequest
Jul 25, 2006, 15:08
Things CAN change, and I hope they will.

Ok, what needs to be done for things to change, or is that the same as wishing for world peace.

Maciamo
Jul 25, 2006, 16:32
I'm sure you are aware that there are huge differences between the Moderator's and Admin here.:relief:

What do you know about me ? You have only joined the forum 3 months after I left Japan, at a time when I hardly posted about Japan. :okashii: You have done nothing but provoke me since you joined... Talk about being negative.:okashii:

DoctorP
Jul 25, 2006, 17:01
He merely mentioned the difference between a mod and an admin...many people do not seem to understand the difference. Let's not start another tiff over something stupid!

changedonrequest
Jul 25, 2006, 17:40
He merely mentioned the difference between a mod and an admin...many people do not seem to understand the difference. Let's not start another tiff over something stupid!

Thanks, It would be helpful, like RockLee remarked


Things CAN change, and I hope they will.

for Maciamo to directly address those concerns, rather than attempt to bait me into an argument that I would refuse to join into. :-)

Maciamo
Jul 25, 2006, 17:55
He merely mentioned the difference between a mod and an admin...many people do not seem to understand the difference. Let's not start another tiff over something stupid!

He was clearly implying to Ghettocities that I probably couldn't have helped him growing up.

Anyway, the difference between a mod and an admin is that an admin has more power. For example : add new subforums, create new usergroups, elect moderators, add smileys and avatars, prune inactive users, set hundreds of forum options (quick reply, flags, reputation system, registration options...), etc.

Personally I do not think that an admin should refrain from moderating as admins have some abilities that mods do not have. What's more I think an admin is responsible for creating new topics and keep the forum alive (even if that means create controversy). On most forums I know, admins act as "super-moderators", and do take an active part in the forum life. I approve this view, but Thomas doesn't.

Here on JREF, 'forum admin' also equals 'site owner' (except for Twisted). Our job as site owner is so much more than the forum alone. It includes site design (mostly me), server administration (mostly Thomas), writing articles (mostly me), approving new photos, classified ads, directory websites, and banners (mostly Thomas), and more.

In other words, Thomas and I both take care of administrative tasks (me more on the forum, him more for the server), but I am the only admin really taking my role as moderator on top of that. Splitting offtopic discussions, banning spammers, trolls and flammers, closing or deleting threads were arguments are too heated or from which nothing good can come, are all admins and mods' responsibilities.

changedonrequest
Jul 25, 2006, 18:23
He was clearly implying to Ghettocities that I probably couldn't have helped him growing up.

:bravo: :bravo: :lol: :lol: :lol: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Maciamo, damn you are good.....I've never met you, seen you, or talked to you, ever before in my life and you can read my mind better than my wife whom I have seen, lived with, argued with, made love to, made our children with, and been partners and friends with for over 20 years.

Maciamo If you could figure out a way to patent that you'd be a millionare.


Anyway, the difference between a mod and an admin is that an admin has more power. For example : add new subforums, create new usergroups, elect moderators, add smileys and avatars, prune inactive users, set hundreds of forum options (quick reply, flags, reputation system, registration options...), etc.

Personally I do not think that an admin should refrain from moderating as admins have some abilities that mods do not have. What's more I think an admin is responsible for creating new topics and keep the forum alive (even if that means create controversy). On most forums I know, admins act as "super-moderators", and do take an active part in the forum life. I approve this view, but Thomas doesn't.

Here on JREF, 'forum admin' also equals 'site owner' (except for Twisted). Our job as site owner is so much more than the forum alone. It includes site design (mostly me), server administration (mostly Thomas), writing articles (mostly me), approving new photos, classified ads, directory websites, and banners (mostly Thomas), and more.

In other words, Thomas and I both take care of administrative tasks (me more on the forum, him more for the server), but I am the only admin really taking my role as moderator on top of that. Splitting offtopic discussions, banning spammers, trolls and flammers, closing or deleting threads were arguments are too heated or from which nothing good can come, are all admins and mods' responsibilities.

Anyway....I am glad to see that finally there was a more detailed explaination about what the functions of each are here.

Much appreciated.:wave:

Ps. You brought up some interesting topics within that post that hopefully other members will catch on to and comment on. As of right now I for one will not.

nurizeko
Jul 28, 2006, 01:06
Having two or more co-heads running any organization or company is usually a recipe for disaster, especially as well as it appears these two knew each other when Thomas brought him on as a full partner.

Why was Maciamo given the job then?.


admin

/ad-min'/ n. Short for `administrator'; very commonly
used in speech or on-line to refer to the systems person in charge
on a computer. Common constructions on this include `sysadmin' and
`site admin' (emphasizing the administrator's role as a site contact
for email and news) or `newsadmin' (focusing specifically on news).

Admins are infact for 90% of all forums I've ever frequented, there to keep the forum and website running, not for moderating, which is in nearly all cases left exclusively to the moderation staff.

Most admins mind tend to be busy with other things then getting caught in forum tiffs though.


On most forums I know, admins act as "super-moderators", and do take an active part in the forum life. I approve this view, but Thomas doesn't.

Is there another entirely independent internet I havnt been informed of then?.
Just out of curiosity..

As I said in another thread, Maciamo, you are a good contributor and apart from the SVF problems I would never had trouble with you (which I also think made you feel under assault and stressed and coincedently end up lashing out at some folk) but I think its a good idea to find some mature regular members (if thats possible, :blush: ) and ask them to become mods, and distance yourself from this aspect of your "job description".

it will free you up to be as contriversal in yoyr postings as you want, without the headache of "corrupt moderator" thats has been chucked about, let your mods do their job, while you enjoy the forum you've helped build without the daily hassle of moderation.

RockLee
Jul 28, 2006, 02:03
Actually, that would be the stupidest thing I ever heard Nuri. Would you give up sex because some people think you're not fit for it? Mac. likes posting, and he has every right to post whenever he wants. Perhaps he can ask another mod to moderate the discussion tho :)

Elizabeth
Jul 28, 2006, 02:36
Admins are infact for 90% of all forums I've ever frequented, there to keep the forum and website running, not for moderating, which is in nearly all cases left exclusively to the moderation staff.
That is my experience as well although I don't have a concern with Maciamo positing as regularly as he does to the extent the topic is kept firmly in mind, in other words what is external to his own personality or temperment and especially that of other posters. :relief:

nurizeko
Jul 28, 2006, 23:17
Actually, that would be the stupidest thing I ever heard Nuri. Would you give up sex because some people think you're not fit for it? Mac. likes posting, and he has every right to post whenever he wants. Perhaps he can ask another mod to moderate the discussion tho :)

.....Thats what I said.... :souka:


. . .think its a good idea to find some mature regular members (if thats possible, ) and ask them to become mods, and distance yourself from this aspect of your "job description". . .it will free you up to be as contriversal in your postings as you want, without the headache of "corrupt moderator" thats has been chucked about. . .

0wnz0r3d. :happy:

Mike Cash
Jul 29, 2006, 04:36
I think "corrupt moderator" is entirely too harsh and unjustified a term. A sometimes seemingly unpricincipled moderator, yes. A corrupt moderator, no.

Mikawa Ossan
Jul 29, 2006, 08:47
The word corrupt conjures images of politicians accepting bribes, etc. This is not Maciamo.

Elizabeth
Jul 29, 2006, 09:00
The word corrupt conjures images of politicians accepting bribes, etc. This is not Maciamo.
At least there isnt the opportunity at a forum to judge corruption in the sense of lying, bribery or anything illegal so it only reflects poorly on the poster to throw around defamatory terms that cant be substantiated as a turn of phrase or catchy epithet.

nurizeko
Jul 30, 2006, 20:22
The word corrupt conjures images of politicians accepting bribes, etc. This is not Maciamo.

Lets just say then Maciamo is a competent politician who is known for occassionally saying something a bit contriversial in the public eye.

:blush:

changedonrequest
Jul 30, 2006, 23:32
Lets just say then Maciamo is a competent politician who is known for occassionally saying something a bit contriversial in the public eye.

:blush:
If that is so then I would say that he risks the chance of not being elected because of his rather "hard-headed" view of many different topics. Maciamo seems to be a good man, BUT he doesn't have the political nuance to be flexible enough to win an election.

Elizabeth
Jul 31, 2006, 00:46
If that is so then I would say that he risks the chance of not being elected because of his rather "hard-headed" view of many different topics. Maciamo seems to be a good man, BUT he doesn't have the political nuance to be flexible enough to win an election.
Political in the sense of knowing how to work the system to your advantage and
liking I would definately agree with....gotta give him credit for that. :-)

Evan Fitz
Aug 26, 2010, 17:41
negative and positive refer to your prescription and vision...negative is associated with nearsightedness and positive is associated with farsightedness