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justin9213
May 29, 2006, 04:08
Do the Chinese understand Pin Yin? Is it easyier than english? Does it have the same feeling as if it was wrriten in chinese?

nice gaijin
May 29, 2006, 04:19
hanzi conveys meaning, whereas pinyin just tells pronunciation and intonation. My understanding is that pinyin is a learning aid for students of Chinese that understand the English alphabet, and is not necessary for native speakers to learn. I'd guess that it's along the same lines as romaji for Japanese; even if they can read it, it has none of the history or meaning behind it.

Minty
May 29, 2006, 06:05
hanzi conveys meaning, whereas pinyin just tells pronunciation and intonation. My understanding is that pinyin is a learning aid for students of Chinese that understand the English alphabet, and is not necessary for native speakers to learn. I'd guess that it's along the same lines as romaji for Japanese; even if they can read it, it has none of the history or meaning behind it.

Actually native speakers do learn pin yin. Chinese people in China, Malaysia and Singapore learn the pin yin in Roman alphabet but Taiwan still keep the traditional pin yin writings, it kind of looks like katakana or something. I never learnt that version of pin yin I only know the roman letter ones because I learnt my Chinese in Malaysia before I migrated to Australia. Not sure about HK though.:blush:

4321go
May 29, 2006, 10:52
Pin Yin is just a tool to learn the language~ It is the basic skill for the learner,both for native and nonnative~

nice gaijin
May 29, 2006, 11:50
Oh yes, a Malaysian friend of mine once showed me the pronunciation key used in Taiwan. I wasn't aware that native speakers used the roman characters during study, but I suppose it makes sense. Once a character's proper pronunciation is learned, however, do native speakers ever use pin yin for the character again? It seems like it would be counter-productive, unless pin yin is the input method for Chinese, like romaji for Japanese.

JimmySeal
May 29, 2006, 12:28
I know that pinyin is widely used in Singapore. People there probably understand it better than most students of Chinese, and definitely better than most Japanese people understand romaji.

In Taiwan they use phonetic characters (bo po mo fo, I forget the technical term for them), so they probably don't know pinyin as well there.

Minty
May 30, 2006, 05:39
Oh yes, a Malaysian friend of mine once showed me the pronunciation key used in Taiwan. I wasn't aware that native speakers used the roman characters during study, but I suppose it makes sense. Once a character's proper pronunciation is learned, however, do native speakers ever use pin yin for the character again? It seems like it would be counter-productive, unless pin yin is the input method for Chinese, like romaji for Japanese.

Yes, pin yin can be used to find the Chinese characters in order to type Chinese fonts on computers. It can also be used to find words in computerize dictionaries or dictionaries.

Minty
May 30, 2006, 05:43
I know that pinyin is widely used in Singapore. People there probably understand it better than most students of Chinese, and definitely better than most Japanese people understand romaji.
In Taiwan they use phonetic characters (bo po mo fo, I forget the technical term for them), so they probably don't know pinyin as well there.

Bo po mo fo are pin yin but they are the traditional font of the pin yin system, the Taiwanese seem like the only one left that still use that. China, Malaysia and Singapore have all decided to use the new Roman pin yin font. No sure about Hong Kong.

dreamer
May 31, 2006, 19:41
I thought pin yin was the most used input method used in china? Am I wrong?

justin9213
Jun 1, 2006, 09:26
What is the new pinyin font?

nice gaijin
Jun 1, 2006, 15:54
If you're referring to the "new Roman pin yin font" Minty mentioned, I think she's referring to the alphabet with diacritical marks (over the characters) as opposed to the traditional syllabary used in Taiwan.

justin9213
Jun 2, 2006, 09:14
So they dont use Ni3 hao3 anymore?
They use nǐ hǎo?
What if you cant type alphabet with diacritical marks on your computer?

osias
Jun 3, 2006, 00:14
I know that pinyin is widely used in Singapore. People there probably understand it better than most students of Chinese, and definitely better than most Japanese people understand romaji.
In Taiwan they use phonetic characters (bo po mo fo, I forget the technical term for them), so they probably don't know pinyin as well there.
bo po mo fo is called ’‰Ή•„εj.

huayue
Jun 19, 2006, 13:09
sure,you know in china every primary students must learn PinYin ,its a foundation to study chineseXD

nhk9
Jun 20, 2006, 16:18
Pinyin is not difficult if you have a native pronouncing them for you. It's quite straight forward. Also, you can guess the pinyin of certain characters just by looking at certain components of the characters. Tones are always harder to guess.

bilicon
Jul 25, 2006, 00:02
Actually native speakers do learn pin yin. Chinese people in China, Malaysia and Singapore learn the pin yin in Roman alphabet but Taiwan still keep the traditional pin yin writings, it kind of looks like katakana or something. I never learnt that version of pin yin I only know the roman letter ones because I learnt my Chinese in Malaysia before I migrated to Australia. Not sure about HK though.:blush:

Yeah, mandarin is more and more popular in HK now. And some of my Hk friends tell me that they also use pinyin. And some of them even use pinyin to type simplified chinese.


And i also wanna tell you guys that, pinyin is very important in china. It almost of of han people know pinyin, because when we are in elementary school, we all need to learn pinyin.

Gaijinian
Jul 26, 2006, 01:17
I wish Taiwan used Roman Pinyin.... I'm too lazy to learn Zhuyin Fuhao. I Taiwanese dude tried to teach it to me, but ai, ang, e, a... all sound so similar... And it really makes Romanization of words crazy...
Like, 新, quite similar to Japanese シン with a high tone, is Romanized as Hsin... I think in pinyin it is Xin1.
http://en.hccg.gov.tw/
That city is pronunced like シンズ... Hsinchu? なんで?

Supervin
Jul 26, 2006, 14:18
I wish Taiwan used Roman Pinyin.... I'm too lazy to learn Zhuyin Fuhao. I Taiwanese dude tried to teach it to me, but ai, ang, e, a... all sound so similar... And it really makes Romanization of words crazy...
Yes, it's quite a pity - things would've been standardized throughout China and Taiwan had the latter decided to adopt Hanyu Pinyin, the mainstream form of Pinyin nowadays. Since Hanyu Pinyin was invented by China, for political reasons, Taiwan has always rejected the idea of using it.

At least (for one) in recent years, Taipei has adopted Hanyu Pinyin through Ma Ying-jeou's insistence. The rather awkward traditional Pinyin system that can be seen all over Taiwan even today is called Wade-Giles - e.g. Zhong Xiao East Road (Hanyu) is written as Chung Hsiao East Road (Wade-Giles).

However, despite the rejection of the mainstream Pinyin, Taiwan has come up with a somewhat similar Pinyin system to Hanyu, called Tongyong Pinyin. This one's at least more easily convertible for those proficient in Hanyu Pinyin - using Tongyong, the above example would become Jhong Siao East Road. Its widespread use remains to be seen though.

yzxmw
Aug 4, 2006, 21:48
I love PIN YING since without it I would never input Chinese words so quickly and easily as now.The man who invented PIN YING must be a genius!
By the way,although PIN YING has great advantage,it still can not replace the Chinese Words.

Supervin
Aug 11, 2006, 10:29
I love PIN YING since without it I would never input Chinese words so quickly and easily as now.
What imput method did you use in the past? Apparently Cangjie is really popular and so is Wubi, especially in Chinese speaking areas where pinyin hasn't been adopted.

–n‰Ζ传l
Aug 11, 2006, 23:42
indeed , pin yin is used in china since 1949
but it is not that case in taiwan and hongkong
pin yin is just a tool to learn chinese
since i was a kid ,i learned chinese using pin yin
if you read pin yin,you may think it is like english or some other languages in EU
but chinese will never ever be replaced by pin yin
because yin pin never shows any beautiful sense
but hanzi ,the chinese charactors , has a beautil handwriting figure
it is a kind of culture in the long history in china which can originated one thousand years ago or more

Benjaqq
Aug 19, 2006, 10:33
yeah, couldn't agree more with –n‰Ζ传l.But also thanks to Pin Yin, othervise it's not this easy for us lazy ppl to input Chinese font so freely, I haven't study Wubi yet, find it so difficult, should remember so many thing by heart. Hope 1 day can use Wubi lah, bcoz it's faster to input chinese font if master in Wubi.

Another Aoi Fan
Aug 31, 2006, 03:17
I think Pingying is used mostly by and for people who speak English... and know how to speak chinese. Its a form of writing, specificly. I dont think its used in Hong Kong.. :souka:

Nicholas Tse
Aug 31, 2006, 16:24
“‚lαc‘R˜πpinyin啦﹗œ”ρŒWgΤlh!
of course chinese know pinyin! except those "banana man"!

Nicholas Tse
Aug 31, 2006, 16:29
“‚lαc‘R˜πpinyin啦﹗œ”ρŒWgΤlh!
of course chinese know pinyin! except those "banana man"!
gΤlh=Ž―u‰p•Ά﹐šIŽ―u’†•Ά“I“‚l﹗Šˆΰ gŠO黃內”’h﹗
"banana man"=Chinese that only knows how to speak english and does not know how to speak chinese!Same as banana! Yellow on the outside but White is inside!

Gaijinian Man
Sep 5, 2006, 19:34
I take it back--i love zhuyin fuhao, and I think the mainland should use it, too. It is not that hard, just learn it over the course of three days or so, not twenty minuets, ha...
The sad thing is, I don't know how to romanize Chinese... 我喜歡ㄅㄆㄇ

ricecake
Sep 5, 2006, 22:14
Good to hear you're fast learning the Chinese language basic " bo po mo fo ",it's a better method than what mainland has in placed.

I've had 5 years of full-fledged Chinese education during my childhood,romanization format wasn't taught at the private Chinese school I attended.I can read high school level Chinese though,in examples periodicals/newspapers,books on ancient East Asia history,romance/swordplay martial arts novels,plus Chinese-subtitled foreign entertainments.However,writing eligibly Chinese has been challenging for me because I didn't practice it often enough in my adolescent years.

uloocn
Sep 6, 2006, 00:25
Good to hear you're fast learning the Chinese language basic " bo po mo fo ",it's a better method than what mainland has in placed.
I've had 5 years of full-fledged Chinese education during my childhood,romanization format wasn't taught at the private Chinese school I attended.I can read high school level Chinese though,in examples periodicals/newspapers,books on ancient East Asia history,romance/swordplay martial arts novels,plus Chinese-subtitled foreign entertainments.However,writing eligibly Chinese has been challenging for me because I didn't practice it often enough in my adolescent years.
sure??
Can you understand 古文观止? just a test.

ricecake
Sep 6, 2006, 06:03
I love zhuyin fuhao,and I think the mainland should use it,too.It is not that hard, just learn it over the course of three days or so.



It will not happen in foreseeable future,same as mainland not reverting back to Traditional Chinese characters.

My eldest brother attended Taiwan's Taipei University ages ago,he was recruited by the Department of Education to teach at a local high school for 4 years in a hillbilly town near Tainan city in southern part of the island.

I wish you the best in your learning endeaver in Chinese language and culture,make time for fun as well.:-)

One last note,My Mandarin is self taught and I can speak near fluency with Taiwan drawl.:blush:

seasurfer
Sep 6, 2006, 11:04
indeed , pin yin is used in china since 1949
but it is not that case in taiwan and hongkong
pin yin is just a tool to learn chinese
since i was a kid ,i learned chinese using pin yin
if you read pin yin,you may think it is like english or some other languages in EU
but chinese will never ever be replaced by pin yin
because yin pin never shows any beautiful sense
but hanzi ,the chinese charactors , has a beautil handwriting figure
it is a kind of culture in the long history in china which can originated one thousand years ago or more

Hanyu Pinyin did not appear in China until 1958. It was only approved by the CCP only in 1979. So it is not right to say it was used since 1949.

ricecake
Sep 6, 2006, 13:34
Hanyu Pinyin did not appear in China until 1958. It was only approved by the CCP only in 1979.So it is not right to say it was used since 1949.



Since PRC took over in 1949,with no specific dates when Hanyu Pinyin was put in use.

Supervin
Sep 6, 2006, 14:09
One last note,My Mandarin is self taught and I can speak near fluency with Taiwan drawl.:blush:
So can many Taiwanese.


Since PRC took over in 1949,with no specific dates when Hanyu Pinyin was put in use.
Of course there is.

Pinyin was approved in 1958 and adopted in 1979 by the PRC Government. It's safe to say that it's been put in use per se by 1979 latest.

hot12lips12
Aug 18, 2007, 13:47
’†‘l–η—p拼‰ΉC‰δ¬Šwέ“ί—’γ“I时ŒσA—L—pšGBB

i think the Cantonese type of pinyin is hard to pronounce because the letters have different sounds than the mandarin or American ones

jiggy10
Aug 22, 2007, 03:25
Hi there,

From my experience, Chinese kids know the best about Pin Yin. Adults get confused (expecially with "jin" and "jing"), and taxi driver absolutaly can't read it!

carolwong
Aug 30, 2007, 14:01
sure, I know. It just as the phonetic symbol of English.

Constantine
Jan 2, 2008, 18:08
Learning pin yin is an essential phase in the process of acquring Chinese language.

nyouyaku
Jan 10, 2008, 18:26
Do the Chinese understand Pin Yin? Is it easyier than english? Does it have the same feeling as if it was wrriten in chinese?

I noticed that many of the Chinese do not understand. But then, I am Thai, and I find it really difficult to grasp Hanzi, so I gave up. I like to use pinyin as it would be impossible to crack Chinese any other way. It worked out for Vietnam, who got rid of their hanzi.

It would be nice if they got a phonetic script like our Thai, or devanagri, hangul, or hiragana. Advanced Cavemen writing is just too hard to grasp. I don't see how the Chinese writing has gotten simplified because to me, it is still too hard.


Learning pin yin is an essential phase in the process of acquring Chinese language.
Yes, and it will be the final phase and the only phase. I am Thai, and jumping into Hanzi is something reserved for the Japanese and Koreans. As a Thai, I think it would be just as hard for you farangs to crack this one.

chin
Jan 11, 2008, 21:47
hanzi conveys meaning, whereas pinyin just tells pronunciation and intonation. My understanding is that pinyin is a learning aid for students of Chinese that understand the English alphabet, and is not necessary for native speakers to learn. I'd guess that it's along the same lines as romaji for Japanese; even if they can read it, it has none of the history or meaning behind it.
Yes. Pinyin is just like Romaji.
Thay have no meanings, just show you how to pronounce.
They are long and really boring.
But if you want to learn Chinese as a second language,
You have to learn Pinyin first.

Chinese usually learn English alphabet in their childhood,
and they Learn Pinyin too.
Ancient chinese donot use or study Pinyin for they have
another system that enable them say chinese correctly.

Constantine
Jan 12, 2008, 00:23
I'll be extremely sorry if you have gotten too far from the correct path of learning Chinese.

Hanzi or Kanzi are the soul of Chinese.Without them, you can get nowhere.
Pinyin only services to help to facilitate learning Kanzi and will be ancillary to the learning process, but certainly not to substitude for Kanzi.

Anatoli
Jan 12, 2008, 18:38
Let me correct you. It's Hanzi, not Kanzi, if you refer to Chinese characters as they are called in standard Mandarin.

汉Žq (simplified), ŠΏŽq (traditional) Hànzi (Pinyin with tones)

Kanji (ŠΏŽq) is the Japanese term for the same

--
I noticed many people spelled Pinyin (pin yin) separately. It should be spelled together in English and IMHO, is usually capitalised like all names of other scripts.

Cakeceramic
Jun 6, 2008, 17:31
I think pinyin juast like English phonetic symbol. Before you learn English you must learn phonetic symbol. So if you want to learn Chinese, you must learn pinyin.
People say that Chinese Characters are very difficult to learn. But I think every language is the same. If you work hard, it will be easy.