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ACMILAN1983
Jan 4, 2006, 23:52
I was talking to a Chinese person yesterday and said that in historical documents Kung Fu apparently originated from Indian monks who went China to spread the word about Buddhism.

The person took great offence to this and insisted that Chinese people originally created Kung fu despite what I said. In fact, someone else the person was talking to at the time said that I should be beaten up for my comment. :(

I'm just wondering if my comment is insulting to Chinese people at all, because I don't see why its insulting and all documents I've read have suggested that Kung Fu originated from Indian Buddhist Monks.

Truth is, I've spoken to another Chinese person about this problem and they decided to read up on the topic on a Chinese website. He told me that the site said an Indian Buddhist Monk was the originator of Kung Fu although his name (Batuo is his Chinese name) was not mentioned.

What I've found more depressing than anything else about this is that the idea of Indian culture influencing Chinese culture has been met with such hostility.

I just want to know if other Chinese people feel the same way about my comment as this person did.

Ironically, my original reason for talking about India and China was in an attempt to show how both cultures are actually quite similar.

mingo
Jan 6, 2006, 14:49
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma
legends has it, but just legends.. japanese legends even have him bring the tea to china.. seems everything little things came from some great figure..

ACMILAN1983
Jan 6, 2006, 21:37
There are many theories and its also believed that Bodhidharma wasn't the first to introduce Kung Fu to China as many believe that it orginated about 2000 years prior to Bodhidharma's visit when another monk named Batuo (thats his Chinese name, but he's apparently of Indian origin) began a Buddhist temple.

My issue didn't lie within the origins Kung Fu, but rather the hostile attitude of the person towards the suggestions.

I've since confronted the person about it and they said it was about their pride as a Chinese person, but it doesn't make sense to ignorantly believe what you want (without having an open mind that it may not be true) and to discriminate against other cultures for they may have influenced your own.

Attitudes like that often result in the issues the world faces today (the non-acceptance of foreign cultures into your own etc).

pipokun
Jan 7, 2006, 05:52
japanese legends even have him bring the tea to china.. seems everything little things came from some great figure..

It is free to create your own legend, but I've never heard of such a weird legend before.
Where did you find the info?:-)

bossel
Jan 7, 2006, 10:12
Where did you find the info?:-)
Take a look at the link Mingo provided.

pipokun
Jan 7, 2006, 15:18
Take a look at the link Mingo provided.

Thanks a lot.
I just misread mingo's post.

4321go
Jan 9, 2006, 17:24
haha, It is really new for me that the "Kung Fu "originated from Indian .

there are many junta of "Kung fu" ,Indian Buddhist Monks' is one kind of them~we call "少林功夫" the bonze learn it ~! and there are rules which this kind of Kung fu can only initiate to the bonze .

ACMILAN1983
Jan 10, 2006, 04:53
haha, It is really new for me that the "Kung Fu "originated from Indian .
there are many junta of "Kung fu" ,Indian Buddhist Monks' is one kind of them~we call "ьv" the bonze learn it ~! and there are rules which this kind of Kung fu can only initiate to the bonze .

errm...I'm sorry but the post has confused me a bit. I don't really understand what certain words mean and stuff.

Could you explain what junta (types?) is?

Also, I'm not really sure what bonze means either.

Sorry, I'm just kind of confused with the words.

If you did mean that there are many types of Kung Fu, could you perhaps explain the ones that aren't of the Indian Buddhist monks' kind, I'm always interested in learning new things.

4321go
Jan 11, 2006, 12:47
sorry about that ~ since my mother language(mother tongue) is Chinese~ so my English is not so pure...
"junta" is what I want to express as "faction" "wing"

"bonze" is what I want to express as "Monk"

Beside "少林功夫" as you mentioned. there are also "武当" "峨嵋" etc...

Different kind of Kung fu is being strictly keep secret so that other faction can't learn it ~ only the prentice can learn it ~ they all want to be invincible

There are many fiction about Kungfu ,you can find some to read it ~
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinyong

You can search for Jinyong' work(novel) ,I like reading Jinyong's book~

ACMILAN1983
Jan 12, 2006, 00:35
thanks a lot 4321go I'm really interested.
Actually, you might be interested to know I learn Wing Chun Gung Fu (I've done it for about 1 and a half years).
I learn from sifu Samuel Kwok, who you might not know of, but his teachers were Grandmasters Ip Chun and Ip Ching, who were the sons of Grandmaster Yip Man (Bruce Lee's teacher).
I've never read much Kung Fu fiction, but I've been watching Kung Fu films since I was a young boy, which is why I'm interested in it :p

...

couldn't see the point in another post so I thought I'd add a little here.

I've been reading a little about Kung fu and Kalarippayat (an Indian martial art similar to Chinese Kung fu).

People are arguing online all the time whether or not it was an influence in the origins of Chinese Kung fu and what bothers me is people get so worked up about it.

What I find troubling is they make it seem an insult to their own culture to hear such news (doesn't matter if they're Chinese or not in this case).

Why is it people can't accept that cultures have influenced one another throughout history and even if they haven't, it hardly seems insulting to suggest that may be the case.

What I personally find to be more important is to celebrate that this is an aspect of your culture now and also shares similarities to other cultures, rather than focusing on making it the pride of your culture and feeling superior to others.

4321go
Jan 13, 2006, 12:02
Um.you are right~!
both India and China are easten country , they are neighbors since thousands of years~ so ,it is surely that they learn form each other~ include martial art .

In Jinyong' novel ,the place "西域"has been mentioned many time,I guess "西域 " include India~

ACMILAN1983
Jan 13, 2006, 20:29
The Western region? I would have thought India would have been called southern region.

well, if you look at Chinese and Indian cultures, both share a lot of similarities and history together in a lot of ways. Like with Japan obviously, I'm always interested in learning about China and also other cultures.

I'm actually of Indian origin (born and raised in the UK), which is why I think this topic has bothered me more than it ought to have.

I know until now I've only mentioned the Chinese people who have been getting angry, but I know its only some Chinese people who think like this, whilst others (like 4321go) aren't hostile at all, which I like.

Its the same in all cultures and countries where some try to act superior to others by taking their pride in their own culture too far. Ironically, I think these people give others bad impressions of the people of their origin, as they often act arrogant.

Minty
Feb 26, 2006, 09:59
Ok, the idea of kung fu originally from India is kind of surprising to me. I am wondering how come Indians today no longer practice it, if it really did come from India?

I know Buddhism comes from India and it is a dominant religion of the Chinese.

However, I never heard of Kung Fu coming from India. In fact I never heard of South Asians practicing martial arts before.

To my knowledge martial arts are East Asians' culture. Except Thailand which is South East Asian.

Oh I would not be offended at such remarks but I would be surprise.:p

nurizeko
Mar 4, 2006, 17:50
I wouldnt worry about it, the Chinese are just EXTREMELY proud and china-centric of their culture and country.
Anything which is percieved to threaten this outlook on the world and general poor take on reality can be met with offense.
Dont let it get to you, many chinese folk are quite normal and willing to accept points of view that may differ. :wave:

If its still confusing you Minty just remember that buddhism came from india aswell, yet its belief there pales in comparison to the other religions on hindu, islam, and sikhism.

ricecake
Jun 14, 2006, 08:17
I wouldnt worry about it, the Chinese are just EXTREMELY proud and china-centric of their culture and country.


Correct,Chinese are generally China-centric when comes to our culture and history.

Most right-minded Chinese don't take personally offense,rather debate with you on the origin of it's Chinese as we're so ingrained in believing much of Oriental cultural aspects of Asia originated in China with many notable inventions like chopstick,paper money,fire crackers,the list goes on.

Chinese martial arts had it's roots with ancient Chinese religious sects like Shaolin and Wu-Tang plus a few others,it's possible some elements came from India.

dreamer
Jun 14, 2006, 21:20
Yeah that's also what I've noticed from my interactions with china-born teens, but it's the same in any country. For instance, I was in england and when a friend asked me if I wanted some fries, I said that I didn't like brighton's fries. She took offense, thinking I was insulting british food...sigh...

Minty
Jun 16, 2006, 07:06
Yeah that's also what I've noticed from my interactions with china-born teens, but it's the same in any country. For instance, I was in england and when a friend asked me if I wanted some fries, I said that I didn't like brighton's fries. She took offense, thinking I was insulting british food...sigh...

Why didn't you like British fries? Is it because it is eaten with tomatoes sauce? And in France people eat it with mayo or with mussels?

Gavin_wangjz
Jul 5, 2006, 12:13
Buddhism originated Indian and spread into China, but Kung Fu not.If you have some Buddhism & Kung Fu geography knowledge ,you still easy to see that. and why we called ShaoLin Kuang Fu, there is a legend story .the wars creat Kuang Fu, not Buddhism .