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Maciamo
Jul 12, 2005, 18:40
BBC News : Japan racism 'deep and profound' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4671687.stm)


An independent investigator for the UN says racism in Japan is deep and profound, and the government does not recognise the depth of the problem.

Doudou Diene, a UN special rapporteur on racism and xenophobia, was speaking at the end of a nine-day tour of the country.

He said Japan should introduce new legislation to combat discrimination.
...
He was also concerned that politicians used racist or nationalist themes, as he put it, to whip up popular emotions. He singled out the treatment of ethnic Koreans and Chinese and indigenous tribes.
...
He said he would now wait for the Japanese government to respond to his comments before submitting a report to the United Nations.


At last, the UN does something against discrimination in Japan ! I am glad to hear that and hope it will bring some changes, especially in the way the authorities (immigration, police...) look at foreigners, and especially prevent real estate agencies from turning down a customer just because they are not Japanese. But it will takes several generations before mentalities change.

Mike Cash
Jul 12, 2005, 20:18
So the UN sends a guy in who spends nine days here, makes a report containing nothing Japanese authorities haven't heard (and ignored) before, and goes away.

I am reminded of an office comic I saw while in the Navy:

"Doing a good job around here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices."

The net result of this is going to be a UN guy with wet blue serge trousers.

Uncle Frank
Jul 12, 2005, 20:37
if a place exists where there isn't any racism?

Frank

:? :clueless:

lexico
Jul 12, 2005, 21:12
It sounds like the UN is grooming Japan with a last minute quick fix. What else are they going to say other than the all so predictable promise to 'look into the matter with keen interest' ? Japan's racist ideas that caused the deaths of millions are being addressed just one month short of 60 years since the end of WWII. Bravo, UN, and do keep up the good work till fruition !

pipokun
Jul 12, 2005, 21:23
It sounds like the UN is grooming Japan with a last minute quick fix. What else are they going to say other than the all so predictable promise to 'look into the matter with keen interest' ? Japan's racist ideas that caused the deaths of millions are being addressed just one month short of 60 years since the end of WWII. Bravo, UN, and do keep up the good work till fruition !

some like to be political wherever they are living, but some don't.
there are 3 ethnic koreans, I should say 4 when I count naturalised koreans.
the first south korea supporting group
the second north korea supporting group
the third one...

I came to know the third party a while ago.

It would be nice to find ways without saying the right or the left, I should say the liberal now for the latter one.

postscript
I found the story above when I looked for information on passports to help non J residents.
the first party can hold South Korean passports
the second party DPRK ones
the third party...
the forth Japanese ones

When it comes to P.R China/Taiwan for information like their passports/resident cards/visas here, too complicated for me to explain.

Maciamo
Jul 12, 2005, 22:43
if a place exists where there isn't any racism?

Frank

:? :clueless:

The main problem in Japan is that the government does not try to fight racism and even encourages it. It is quite incredible that no laws prohibit real estate agencies from refusing foreigners on the grounds that they are foreigners or to have signs that read : "no dogs or foreigners allowed". Well, the last one may not be legal, but as for pornography, it is not enforced at all, and the law only exist so that Japan can tell other countries that they do have a law about it.

The attitude of the Japanese authorities, especially the executive power (as opposed to legislative) should change radically.

Of course, I don't expect ordinary people to change, but that is true of any country. Racism may be expressed more violently in some parts of the US or Europe, but the American and European government try to enforce affimative action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action), a word that most Japanese have never heard of and which doesn't even have a real translation in Japanese.

pipokun
Jul 12, 2005, 23:09
The main problem in Japan is that the government does not try to fight racism and even encourages it. It is quite incredible that no laws prohibit real estate agencies from refusing foreigners on the grounds that they are foreigners or to have signs that read : "no dogs or foreigners allowed". Well, the last one may not be legal, but as for pornography, it is not enforced at all, and the law only exist so that Japan can tell other countries that they do have a law about it.

The attitude of the Japanese authorities, especially the executive power (as opposed to legislative) should change radically.

Of course, I don't expect ordinary people to change, but that is true of any country. Racism may be expressed more violently in some parts of the US or Europe, but the American and European government try to enforce affimative action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action), a word that most Japanese have never heard of and which doesn't even have a real translation in Japanese.

I know you want to invite more Japanese players here, but I don't think USO is good.
Just google 同和教育 for anti-racism educaiton.

nurizeko
Aug 18, 2005, 00:42
It seems government supported descrimination and institutional racism is fine aslong as it isnt invading other countries.

Its an interesting topic since, its the one country thats fully developed where white people can experience the immigration issue all western countries have, from the immigrants point of view that we otherwise wouldnt get in europe, since, we look pretty much the same.

The difference is, in the west, at least britain, the government takes action against descrimination in nearly all its forms, some would even say unreasonably far, where-as in japan, the government at best doesnt care, and at worst encourages it.

My prediction is that japan wont respond, or respond with a mumble, and it will be forgotten.

Mike Cash
Aug 18, 2005, 01:00
As much as I am against discrimination, I'm all for telling the UN to bugger off.

Tokyoite
Nov 9, 2005, 03:17
hehe... what a joke. :-)
it's about time that the UN end.
They are really pathetic.

Imo ethnic Koreans in Japan are the happiest immigrants in the world.
For example, though they are foreigners, they are permitted to make a permanent home in Japan.

Who governs Japan?
Of course the answer is Japanese, not foreigners.
Don't forget it.
We don't want to become the second France(hehe... look at that riot) :blush:

Hyde_is_my_anti-drug
Nov 10, 2005, 22:40
There is no quick fix to racism, it is rooted deeply in all people wether they realize it or not. Human beings have an inborn fear of what is different from them or "not normal."
Japan also has a long history of distrust with foreigners, until around the Meiji Era I believe no foreigner had set foot on Japanese soil for maybe a hundred years or something like that.
I am not defending racism, I hate it, but I think it's important to understand it. Like most phobias and prejudices racism stems from lack of knowledge and therefor fear of the unknown. Hundreds of years ago if you saw someone with skin that's different from yours it would probably scare you. Causing people to fear foreigners and try and keep them away thinking of it as self protection. This causes the other party to do the same. And before you know it you have racism.
I think it is natural to have distrust of what is different as a human being, it's a defence of sorts. However we are ALL human beings regardless of where we were born or ethnic origin. We are not different species we are human. That's why I don't like "races" it devides and makes the problem worse.
But it is a problem that won't simply "go away" quickly. The problem has been allowed to continue for far to long and not just in Japan but all over the world. Countries have hundreds of years worth of racism and biogtry built up against each other. This nation did this, so this nation does that to get back, then the other nation does this as revenge, and then that nation does something else as "self defence." It just never ends. Both parties point the fingure at the other saying "it's their fault! They started it!" when in truth it's EVERYBODY'S fault and EVERYBODY started it. Human beings by nature are not forgiving in the slightest so no one is willing to simply say, "it doesn't matter which one started it but we're all sorry and we should all be forgiven" and then ACTUALLY forgive all. People harp on things, they cling to their pain instead of releasing it causing all these lasting problems between nations.
"They did this!"
"Yeah, well, they did THIS which is worse!"
"We only did that 'cause of what you did!!"
"Well, we only did that 'cause of what you did!"
And it just goes on and on. The problem is no one is willing to LISTEN. No one is willing to break the circle, own up to what they've done, and then friggin DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Gaijin 06
Nov 11, 2005, 09:31
For example, though they are foreigners, they are permitted to make a permanent home in Japan.

Who governs Japan?
Of course the answer is Japanese, not foreigners.
Don't forget it.
We don't want to become the second France(hehe... look at that riot) :blush:

I think this post sums up the differences in attitude between most Japanese and most Europeans.

I would have no problem with an immigrant serving in the British government, or any part of British society. In fact I am fairly sure we have had a few, at least Michael Howard and Portillo are immigrants I think. We've also had a women prime minister and black/Asian MPs, as well as gay MPs and a blind cabinet minister.

But then I am not racist and abhor racism whenever I see it.

I think new cultures, new ideas, new strengths and weaknesses, new food etc enhance a community rather than weakening it. Seems this is not the prevailing attitude in Japan though.

Yamatoblue
Nov 13, 2005, 16:04
hehe... what a joke. :-)


Who governs Japan?
Of course the answer is Japanese, not foreigners.
Don't forget it.
We don't want to become the second France(hehe... look at that riot) :blush:
good God, that is an ignorant comment....

Maciamo
Nov 13, 2005, 16:50
There is no quick fix to racism, it is rooted deeply in all people wether they realize it or not. Human beings have an inborn fear of what is different from them or "not normal."
Japan also has a long history of distrust with foreigners, until around the Meiji Era I believe no foreigner had set foot on Japanese soil for maybe a hundred years or something like that.

Indeed, Japan has a longer history of visceral racism than almost any other country. During two and a half centuries, any foreigner who set foot in Japan was welcomed with death penalty (exceptions made for the Chinese and Koreans). I cannot think of any other country having implemented such extreme racist laws for so long in recent centuries (or ever).

Maciamo
Nov 13, 2005, 17:06
I think this post sums up the differences in attitude between most Japanese and most Europeans.

I would have no problem with an immigrant serving in the British government, or any part of British society.

I agree. The Japanese associate so strongly Japanese nationality with Japanese looks that often when I come bck to Narita Airport and go in the "Japanese passports" queue (which also includes foreigners with re-entry visas), some Japanese in the queue (not the airport staff) tell me in English that I have mistaken and that foreigners should go to the other lane "over there". Basically, for such people it is just unthinkable that a Western-looking person could be Japanese (in addition to the fact that they can't read "再入国ビザ" (re-entry visas). Add to that the fact that almost everytime I take the lift/elevator or go to a public toilet and get face to face with a (lone) Japanese, he (almost only men do that) says "oh, gaijin da !". Same. Look foreign = cannot possibly be Japanese. I think that 99.9% of the Japanese think this way.

Interestingly, when I went to China, I never heard anybody say "waiguoren" (gaikokujin) and people didn't stare at me as much as in Japan. That's surprising as there are much more Westerners in Tokyo than in any Chinese city, and the Tokyoite shave been used to seeing Westerners for decades, unlike the Chinese.

Ma Cherie
Nov 14, 2005, 07:55
Is it just me, or does it seem that some people from the outside see that Japan has some deep racial issues, except for Japanese society? :?

yukio_michael
Dec 17, 2005, 15:42
Is it just me, or does it seem that some people from the outside see that Japan has some deep racial issues, except for Japanese society? :?I only have one friend whom stayed with me while on a year long visit to the states in Japan who admits that the situation is a little bad--- Everyone else sees people leaving because Japan is just too "different".

nurizeko
Jan 12, 2006, 12:52
i must be in some alternate dimension japan, im really not seeing this talked about everyday descrimination against gaijin.

thomas
Jan 12, 2006, 14:03
Not to contradict you or doubt your experiences, just to put things in perspective. :-)


...that often when I come bck to Narita Airport and go in the "Japanese passports" queue (which also includes foreigners with re-entry visas), some Japanese in the queue (not the airport staff) tell me in English that I have mistaken and that foreigners should go to the other lane "over there".

Never happened to me in over two years and half a dozen of re-entries. Wish someone in the queue would talk to me.


...or go to a public toilet and get face to face with a (lone) Japanese, he (almost only men do that) says "oh, gaijin da !".

Ditto. Wish someone talked to me in restrooms, lolol.


Interestingly, when I went to China, I never heard anybody say "waiguoren" (gaikokujin) and people didn't stare at me as much as in Japan. That's surprising as there are much more Westerners in Tokyo than in any Chinese city, and the Tokyoite shave been used to seeing Westerners for decades, unlike the Chinese.

Now, my experiences in China have been somehow different. I have travelled through Middle Eastern and African countries that could hardly be considered "tourist destinations", but I have never received more insolent stares than in China. That includes urban Shanghai which in summer attracts hordes of rural Chinese visitors.

As initially stated: just to put things in perspective. :blush:

Mike Cash
Jan 12, 2006, 21:56
i must be in some alternate dimension japan, im really not seeing this talked about everyday descrimination against gaijin.

Doesn't this fly in the face of your recent comments in a different thread?

Maciamo
Jan 12, 2006, 23:05
i must be in some alternate dimension japan, im really not seeing this talked about everyday descrimination against gaijin.
Could you be more specific. What is it that you don't see ? Of course, if you don't understand Japanese and actively seek to eavesdrop on people in cafes or trains, or don't talk with Japanese others than your friends, or don't listen to Ishihara's speeches on TV... you will miss a lot.