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Maciamo
Apr 27, 2005, 00:08
BBC : Japan rejects war shrine lawsuit (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4484349.stm)


A court in Japan has rejected a lawsuit against senior politicians' visits to the controversial Yasukuni war shrine.

The suit claimed that visits by Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi and Tokyo's governor violated the constitution.

The verdict may anger China, as the shrine commemorates Japanese war dead, among them convicted war criminals.

How can the court reject such an important lawsuit ? The fact is that the PM's visit were unconstitutional, due to the separation of state and religion guaranteed by the constitution, and PM Koizumi did make a donation to the shrine using tax-payers' money, so that it cannot possiblt be considered as a private visit.

This question is unrelated to the war criminal issue, and it is usually widely accepted by the Japanese population that his visits were against the constitution. What's more as many as 1047 Japanese (and Korean) plaintiffs filed the case against Koizumi.


In a sign that China, too, is anxious to appease Japan, police in Shanghai have detained 42 people in connection with the recent violent anti-Japanese protests, state media said on Tuesday.

Sixteen of these detainees will be charged with disturbing social order, the Shanghai Daily said.


So China did arrest the troublemakers. That's a good thing.

Maciamo
Apr 27, 2005, 15:41
Little update from the Japan Times (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050427a2.htm).


Commenting on the ruling, Koizumi told reporters he sees no point in the lawsuit against his visits.

"I don't understand why the matter is put on trial . . . I don't think this is an issue for the courts," he said.

Koizumi still plays the innocent. Last year he claimed that he didn't understand why his actions were unconstitutional (but, yet, he is the Prime Minister - a scary thought that the people governing you don't understand as fundamental a law as the constitution). Now he is playing stupid again. :rolleyes:


The Tokyo court was the last of six district courts across Japan to rule on seven similar suits filed by a total of more than 2,000 plaintiffs.

Why are Japanese protecting the PM ? Isn't there a separation of the judicial and executive power in Japan (other than in name) ?

pipokun
May 2, 2005, 17:58
What if the judicial decision were placed only by the number of plaintiffs?

Maciamo
May 2, 2005, 23:11
What if the judicial decision were placed only by the number of plaintiffs?

Is 1,000 people too few to file a lawsuit in Japan ?

Baley
May 7, 2005, 15:28
So China did arrest the troublemakers. That's a good thing.

A few days ago, I got information, forgot where it was found, saying that some protestors used violence to Japanese were linked with Taiwan intellegence department. I'm not sure if it is true, but no doubt Taiwan intellegence personal were active now in mainland.

Baley
May 7, 2005, 15:42
Why are Japanese protecting the PM ? Isn't there a separation of the judicial and executive power in Japan (other than in name) ?

I have some basic knowledge of Japanese political system, not much. Still, parlimentary governments share some features in common. There is NO separation of power and checks and balances in parlimentary politial system, which was originated in UK, then spreaded throughout many regions. Only presidential system, as noticed in United States and countries such as Brazile consist of the concept of separation of power. It must be stressed that almost all modern countries believe the idea of separation of religion and states. At this point, Japanese PM's visit to _ Yasukuni Shrine definitely violated the international norm held by most states.

pipokun
May 7, 2005, 20:19
A bit off topic, but just research a little upon a doctrine, political question. If I remember correctly, this is also controversial even in the US which, you think, consists of the concept of separation of power. The doctrine itself was more controversial in the context of US bases or US-Japan treaty in Japan.
Do you think it wrong that President Bush says something like gGod bless youh in his speech? If yes, therefs nothing I can talk to you.

Jun 27, 2006, 22:58
Japan's Top Court Throws Out War Shrine Appeals (http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/archive/news/2006/06/27/20060627p2a00m0na038000c.html)
Both the Takamatsu and Tokyo high courts skirted the constitutionality issue altogether in rulings last year, saying Koizumi's visit did not compromise the freedoms of the plaintiffs, so they were not entitled to claim damages.

related post (http://www.wa-pedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357566)

Mike Cash
Jun 28, 2006, 03:32
Right. They should be required to give up their freedom of religion and should piss on the memories of 2.5 million perished Japanese soldiers and sailors because .00056% of the enshrined are Class A war criminals.

gaijinalways
Jun 28, 2006, 23:54
So I guess it's okay if the Chinese and S. Korean governments have another reason to keep their relationship with Japan on the cold side?

ricecake
Jun 29, 2006, 00:25
Does Japanese ruling establishment seem to care,obviously not ?

cashhighlander
Jun 29, 2006, 03:30
It is better to sacrifice relations with other countries than to quit honoring the sacrifice of your own countries' soldiers. Most of whom the Shrine honors were not war criminals and deserve to be honored for their sacrifice and devotion to Duty.

gaijinalways
Jun 29, 2006, 12:00
As previously mentioned, those few war criminals do make a difference to those other countries. Move them somewhere else, and stop the Yasukuni shrine museum from bending the facts (maybe more difficult than it sounds as it's a private foundation). This 'Japan as a victim in the war' idea is getting old.

ricecake
Jun 29, 2006, 12:12
This 'Japan as a victim in the war' idea is getting old.



Japanese scripted it in some of their TV doramas.

One example is " The Story of One Century " depicted young pretty Japanese actress as rape victim of stationed American GI's,on the other hand downplayed the ruthless occupation of old Manchuria with a scene of leading female role ( Nanako Matsushima ) innocently re-told her childhood days in Manchuria on how she onetime " stood up " for a Chinese girl/playmate being ridiculed or bullied by some cruel kids.

Mike Cash
Jun 29, 2006, 21:12
This 'Japan as a victim in the war' idea is getting old.

Care to take a guess as the number one factor which facilitates it?

gaijinalways
Jun 30, 2006, 00:09
The government right wing probably. Japan's peace program is nice in some ways, but its occasional insistance on trying to portray Japan as a victim in WWII is odd. That and the 'helping' modernize Korea and Mongolia seems unbelievable to anyone not drugged out on nationalism.

Mike Cash
Jun 30, 2006, 03:38
The government right wing probably.

Nope.

Hint: It has to do with wings....but it was both the left and right wings of Enola Gay and Bock's Car.

osias
Jul 4, 2006, 01:07
I know that the US can save people by dropping bombs on Japanese civilians..The Japanese can never be a victim, because they are inherently evil, and when they got the bomb, it served them right. The US is like justice personified, the only one country in the world that's entitled to moral superiority.

nurizeko
Jul 5, 2006, 19:11
I really hope that is sarcasm for your sake... :souka:

lu_bu1977
Aug 2, 2006, 21:20
Why are Japanese protecting the PM ?

Because they believe he is a great representative of the national identity. Something decent, moral folks know as, imperialistic, arrogant, recalcitrant and racist. Clearly, they must feel that their WW2 atrocities aren't nearly enough of a stigma to warrant a serious change of societal outlook and mentality.

It seems that the only WW2 human tragedy was in Japan because she was a-bombed. What about the Chinese they rather creatively massacred? Why, they are not even human beings. Sincere apologies and fessing up to crimes against humanity are only reserved for fellow human beings.

Simply amazing.

Elizabeth van Kampen
Aug 3, 2006, 00:02
I know that the US can save people by dropping bombs on Japanese civilians..The Japanese can never be a victim, because they are inherently evil, and when they got the bomb, it served them right. The US is like justice personified, the only one country in the world that's entitled to moral superiority.

Hello Osias,

The two A bombs dropped on Japan saved many lifes, because it made an end of that horrible war.
But I find it also extremely sad, that so many innocents died or were marked for life, just to pay the price for the military who were unwilling to stop WW II. I believe that a group of fanatic Japanese military would fight forever.
I find it very sad that not the military paid the bill but the innocent Japanese who had never asked for that horrible war.

I belonged to those young ones full of idealism, we wanted to change the whole world, we wanted peace forever! We had suffered during WW II, we lost our families, our homes, our youth, we lost almost everything, but we wanted to start a new life and make friends with other young ones in other countries. We really believed that could be possible.

Look at our world today, Israel, Lebanon, Africa, poor Iraqi and then Afghanistan. What a mess.
The Bush and Koizumi generation diappoints me terribly.

But... I am looking forward to the younger generation, 25 to 40 years old, will they change the world for the better again? I sincerely hope so.

caster51
Aug 3, 2006, 01:28
The two A bombs dropped on Japan saved many lifes, because it made an end of that horrible war
those 2 A-bomd never saved japan.
it means mass killing saved japan?
we can apply it for every war
anyway ppl want to stop the war. that is why ppl must kill them.?

Poke-mon master
Aug 9, 2006, 14:04
The fact is that the PM's visit were unconstitutional, due to the separation of state and religion guaranteed by the constitution, and PM Koizumi did make a donation to the shrine using tax-payers' money, so that it cannot possiblt be considered as a private visit.


1, Prime Minister Koizumi made a donation with his own pocket money. Not a Tax payers money.

2, There are Suprem court judgement regarding this issue, said that National or Local Government cannot support any paticular religeon, but also everyone had a freedam to believe any religion. So, Every Japanese include Prime Minister Koizumi can celebrate Christmas, or go to the Buddist temple for friends funal, or visit Shinto Shrine on new year day, or go to Yasukuni Shrine.

It is unconstitutional that Government give monetary support to Any religion, like pre-WWII Japanese government spend a lot of money to keep Yasukuni Shrine acrive.