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View Full Version : Comparing Japan and the world => tolerance & prejudices



Maciamo
Dec 14, 2004, 20:58
Let us have a look again at the stats from Nationmaster (http://www.nationmaster.com/). This time I'd like to see where Japan stands in terms of tolerance and prejudices.

The following stats show the percentage of people who do not want to live next to a particular kind of people. The higher the %age and the higher the prejudice, I presume.

Japan actually tops the list of developed countries for several categories of undesirable neighbours.

As many as 82% wouldn't want to live next to Political extremists (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_pol_ext). The 2nd highest is Germany with 71% (understandably due to the Nazi past), and the lowest score is for Denmark with only 10% of the people who would object.

One of the biggest gap between Japan and Western countries can be seen in the tolerance toward homosexuals (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_hom). 69% of Japanese are uncomfortable about having gay neighbours, followed by Austria with 43% (that's a 26% gap !). Even the US with all the recent debate about gay marriage only comes 4th with only 34% (so not all people who voted "Bush" were anti-gay ;-) ). The Dutch and Scandinavians are the most tolerant (11 to 18%).

Japanese are also the most numerous (62%) in those who fear living next to emotionally unstable people (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_emo_uns_peo) (that is why so many of them look constantly worried, as it's hard to find a block of house without a hysteric girl or a crabby grandmother ;-) ). Americans come next (47%), but I understand that much more esily, because of the high rate of gun-ownership. Swiss and Danish people care the least (11%).

77% of the Japanese feel uncomfortable living next to someone who has AIDS (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_peo_wit_aid), the 2nd highest score after Switzerland (88%). Denmark is still the most tolerant with only 9% of the people caring about it.

Japan has the highest intolerance level when it comes to drug addicts (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_dru_add), with 91% fearing to live next to some of them. The USA comes 2nd with 80%. Switzerland (39%) and France (44%) are the most tolerant. Surprisingly, the Dutch are among the most intolerant (73%) as well as the Scandinavians.

That was for Japan as the most prejudiced country. When it comes to heavy drinking (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_hea_dri), American, Australian, Austrian and Dutch people are all equally the most intolerant (61-62%), followed very closely by Japan (58%). The Irish are the most open (eheh) with only 34% objecting to heavy drinking neigbhours (probably because the rest are heavy drinkers ;-) ).

Americans fear most to have neighbours with a criminal record (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_cri_rec_hol) (54%), then the Irish (52%), then the Japanese (50%). Swiss (13%) and French (20%) people care the least. Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?

The highest tolerance level for all countries were for living next to someone of a difference race (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_dif_rac). Belgians and Fins are the most racist here (17%), while Japan comes only 4th with just 11% (but why do most landowners make so much fuss about renting their accommodation to a foreigner, even to Japan-born Koreans ?). I guess the people who surveyed the Japanese must have been non-Japanese, and many people didn't answer frankly on this one.

RockLee
Dec 14, 2004, 21:45
the Dutch are among the most intolerant (73%) as well as the Scandinavians.hahaha...when u ask someone about Holland they automatically say ohh WEED??? :P


The Irish are the most open (eheh) with only 34% objecting to heavy drinking neigbhours (probably because the rest are heavy drinkers ;-) ).hehe..figures...the irish !!! lol


Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?yeh that's weird allright :souka:


The highest tolerance level for all countries were for living next to someone of a difference race (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_und_nei_dif_rac). Belgians and Fins are the most racist here (17%), while Japan comes only 4th with just 11% (but why do most landowners make so much fuss about renting their accommodation to a foreigner, even to Japan-born Koreans ?). I guess the people who surveyed the Japanese must have been non-Japanese, and many people didn't answer frankly on this one.Well If you live in belgium you would understand why so many are rascists...in some areas there isn't almost a single belgian...and the immigrants there act like ******* criminals XD, that Japan comes out fourth is very surprising...I guess indeed they didn't want to answer on that hehe...
:p

DoctorP
Dec 14, 2004, 22:10
One of the biggest gap between Japan and Western countries can be seen in the tolerance toward homosexuals. 69% of Japanese are uncomfortable about having gay neighbours, followed by Austria with 43% (that's a 26% gap !). Even the US with all the recent debate about gay marriage only comes 4th with only 34% (so not all people who voted "Bush" were anti-gay ). The Dutch and Scandinavians are the most tolerant (11 to 18%).

I could be wrong, but it looks like the figures for the US came from a study of only roughly 8000 people...hardly an in depth study!

Meiki
Apr 25, 2005, 04:07
About homosexuality, most of the younger generations don't mind homosexuality at all and aren't really sexually shy. They love to see their bishounen-stars getting it on with eachother. And the millions of fanfics can prove it. It probably depends on which place you are at in Japan.
The younger generations are more open and tolerant then their elders. That's what everything is about.

nurizeko
Apr 25, 2005, 16:57
a normal friday night out for some of my mates is to tongue each other fairly passionatly infront of girls to get their attention..

suffice to say homosexuality, and what is considored gay is now considored pretty harmless and normal for the most part.

but, interesting to note my mates dont considor themselves gay and still make gay jabs.

emotionally unstable is a harder one, since that ranges from just a bit needy or fairly rude, to downright out their head.

if you have aids i feel for ya, but i aint moving out, so tough =P.

i could live next to a criminal but ide be more aware of his/her activities.

man i live in britain, ive been around people of different origins since i can remember, i would be hard pressed to tell a foreigner from a brit purely based on colour.

PopCulturePooka
Apr 25, 2005, 18:43
I feel uncomfortable living next to drug addicts, alcoholics and emotionally unstable people, but then I've lived to 2 out of 3 of those groups (alcoholics and emotionally unstables) at various points and it can be quite a scray, nasty experience to do so.

MeAndroo
Apr 27, 2005, 01:38
Go live in a college dorm. I lived on the same floor as political extremists, homosexuals, heavy drinkers and drug users, emotional headcases and people with criminal records. Talk about broadening your horizons.

But I'm sure it's not the norm. It's so cal after all. As far as Japan is concerned, the only one that surprised me was the race one. This is a country that still has problems letting Japan born Koreans vote, and makes white people famous if they can just speak the language. For stuff like political extremism or criminals, I guess it all goes back to social harmony (wa) and its role in traditional Japanese society. I was also surprised by the lack of AIDS awareness for the most part. It seemed like people just didn't talk about it when I was there.

pipokun
Apr 27, 2005, 17:45
The highest tolerance level for all countries were for living next to someone of a difference race. Belgians and Fins are the most racist here (17%), while Japan comes only 4th with just 11% (but why do most landowners make so much fuss about renting their accommodation to a foreigner, even to Japan-born Koreans ?). I guess the people who surveyed the Japanese must have been non-Japanese, and many people didn't answer frankly on this one.

Not all Japanese are landlords.

Maciamo
Apr 27, 2005, 17:52
Not all Japanese are landlords.

The survey is about "neighbours", and except a few homeless, every Japanese lives in a house/flat. Anyway, it's about one's feelings if one were in that situation, not real experience.

pipokun
Apr 28, 2005, 17:54
The survey is about "neighbours", and except a few homeless, every Japanese lives in a house/flat. Anyway, it's about one's feelings if one were in that situation, not real experience.

Yeah, I know. What I wanted to say is that it may be different result if the landlords had been asked. As I am not rich, I cannot share their feelings.


To MeAndroo,
Concerning the AIDS awaireness, you are right. It is sad that Japanese are really lack of it. And the recent survey shows gradual increase of the patients in Japan, though the number and rate of the patients is still smaller and lower than any other countries.
About the ethnic Korean voting right in Japan, I am against it as far as they retain their South/North Korean citizenships.
If I remember correctly, the South pushing hard to get the right, but the North does not.

Maciamo
Apr 29, 2005, 09:33
About homosexuality, most of the younger generations don't mind homosexuality at all and aren't really sexually shy. They love to see their bishounen-stars getting it on with eachother. And the millions of fanfics can prove it. It probably depends on which place you are at in Japan.
The younger generations are more open and tolerant then their elders. That's what everything is about.

I agree that the younger Japanese are usually more open-minded than their elders (also less critical). But hentai manga isn't really the way to judge people's acceptance of homosexuality in real life ! Like in most Western countries, lesbians are more easily accepted than male gays in Japan, especially if they are bisexual (some men really fantasize women like that). But it's still a big no-no to admit yo are gay in Japan.

If you check "“―©ˆ€" (homosexuality) on Amazon Japan (http://www.amazon.co.jp/), there is only one book !! Likewise, if you type "ƒzƒ‚ƒZƒNƒVƒ…ƒAƒ‹" (homosexual), there are only 3 books among the millions of Japanese publications available on Amazon. The keyword "ƒQƒC" (gay) gives 171 results.

In comparison, checking Amazon (http://www.amazon.com) US, there are 1444 books for the keyword "homosexuality", 917 for "homosexual" and 10,097 for "gay" !

Even Amazon France (http://www.amazon.fr/) (with a market half the size of Japan's) has 1147 books in French about "homosexualite", and 1540 books in French with the keyword "gay", a word used less often in French than in Japanese (you know, French people don't like using English words, but the Japanese just love it :p ).

Not that I care, but this gives us a good idea of how taboo homosexuality still is in Japanese society outside pornography.

Searching Google, I have found the following results for the above keywords :

- “―©ˆ€ => 661
- ƒzƒ‚ƒZƒNƒVƒ…ƒAƒ‹ => 9,000

- homosexual => 3,790,000
- homosexuality => 3,690,000
- gay => 52,300,000

- homosexualite (with accent on the "e") => 433,000

Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality.

Ma Cherie
Apr 29, 2005, 10:02
By checking out Nationmaster I found something to be quite interesting and strange. Attitude of Women-should have equal rights, while Canada came in at 70%, the US at 62%, Switzerland 39%, Japan came in at 21%. However, this is what I found strange. The attitude that women are better off than their grandmothers Japan came in at 96%. Unless I'm the only one who finds this odd, Japan also ranked 82% in the area that women are happier now. A huge gap considering that United Kingdom ranked 42%. Canada 33%, Germany 29%, and the US 28%. (Yes, I skipped some countries :sorry: ). Is this odd or what?

Maciamo
Apr 29, 2005, 10:34
By checking out Nationmaster I found something to be quite interesting and strange. Attitude of Women-should have equal rights, while Canada came in at 70%, the US at 62%, Switzerland 39%, Japan came in at 21%. However, this is what I found strange. The attitude that women are better off than their grandmothers Japan came in at 96%. Unless I'm the only one who finds this odd, Japan also ranked 82% in the area that women are happier now. A huge gap considering that United Kingdom ranked 42%. Canada 33%, Germany 29%, and the US 28%.

I also noticed it before. I suppose this is because it is true that women (and men !) are better off now than their grandmothers (or grandfathers). This is because society has evolved, and in Japan's case, the US "imposed" democracy and relatively equal rights for men and women (e.g. for education, voting rights, etc.). So forcedly Japanese women are better off and happier now, although it doesn't mean that most people think they should have equal rights for everything (e.g. promotion at work). I am surprised at the number of young Japanese women who still think that men have more "rights" or deserve more respect than women.

Aria28
Jun 29, 2005, 01:02
I am surprised at the number of young Japanese women who still think that men have more "rights" or deserve more respect than women.

I think this is due to the fact that the evolution of women rights was somewhat forced upon Japan in the first decades after the war, and was too fast and unnatural. Therefore I would suppose that there's a gap between laws and mentalities, since the latter are much slower to change than laws -read: takes one or more generations. Hence the education of most women who are today in their 30s or more certainly still carried on the belief that men have more rights. Hell, i wonder if that's not still the case for many young girls in today. Anyone knows about this?

Maciamo
Jun 29, 2005, 10:37
Hence the education of most women who are today in their 30s or more certainly still carried on the belief that men have more rights. Hell, i wonder if that's not still the case for many young girls in today. Anyone knows about this?

What do you mean by young girls ? I can tell you it's true for those in their 20's, and I suspect also teenagers. Under that there is no point questioning as they probably don't understand what rights are, and they haven't got enough maturity to judge anyway.

Mrjones
Oct 30, 2006, 21:10
Belgians and Fins are the most racist here (17%). There is something what we should really work out.

MoBay
Feb 13, 2007, 05:41
The Belgians being the most racist are exactly where I think they should be. Their colonial history in Africa is one of psychopathic brutality towards the Africans. I am just not surprised by these findings.

macadamia_cocoa
Feb 16, 2007, 23:40
I guess landowners don't want to rent to foreigners because they assume foreigners are more messy than Japanese people, more likely to cause a disturbance, and just don't understand enough about Japanese culture to be responsible.

Mikawa Ossan
Feb 17, 2007, 07:33
Face it, foreigners present a risk. For a number of reasons, a landlord can not take it for granted that a foreigner will stay in Japan for the duration of the contract. And worse than that, some people seem to think that they are under no obligation to follow up on their end of their contract when in Japan.

When I did a stunt at eikaiwa, it was not unheard of for teachers to just up and leave without any warning. I know of people who leave Japan without paying their cell phone and other bills from my college days.

Anyone who has had business dealings with such people are understandable wary of us foreigners. I know I don't blame them.

Glenski
Jun 18, 2007, 11:31
For tolerance and prejudices, let's see how many countries still post signs like "No foreigners allowed". Japan has them in places, despite signing the anti-discrimination treaty 12 years ago. NO laws have been enacted to enforce that signing.

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 11:41
‚h@‚”‚ˆ‚‰‚Ž‚‹@it is distinguish though it is not discrimination.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 12:24
‚h@‚”‚ˆ‚‰‚Ž‚‹@it is distinguish though it is not discrimination.

How is it not discrimination?

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 18:48
the most case is at Hostess bar that is witten like that.

only sitting in the bar is ¥10.000 charge and they can not speak English at all.

i think it is kind of them.

good japanese speaker of the chinese and the Korean are not included.

If I were a master of hostess bar and i can not speak english at all,
I could not take care of them there and I could not say "please pay money" with out conversation service

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 19:02
the most case is at Hostess bar that is witten like that.
only sitting in the bar is 10.000 charge and they can not speak English at all.
i think it is kind of them.
good japanese speaker of the chinese and the Korean are not included.
If I were a master of hostess bar and i can not speak english at all,
I could not take care of them there and I could not say "please pay money" with out conversation service
Mmm then what do you call it when a "gaijin" that speaks Japanese is refused service.

To assume that "all foreigners" can not speak Japanese is not only discriminatory but also racist and to collectively refuse them all service is the same as well.

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 19:07
Mmm then what do you call it when a "gaijin" that speaks Japanese is refused service.

It is Ok to enter , however I would keep sign like that.
if they keep to complain about that , they are not a customer

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 19:13
there are many Restaurant@that@refuse customers without letter of introduction

pipokun
Jun 18, 2007, 19:13
For tolerance and prejudices, let's see how many countries still post signs like "No foreigners allowed". Japan has them in places, despite signing the anti-discrimination treaty 12 years ago. NO laws have been enacted to enforce that signing.

Just research why so many people incl. far-left activists or yakuza and media are saying "NO" against the controversial "Human Right Law", which the ruling coalition is eager to enact.

Keep it in mind that I will say to you, "you are quite unfair when you say, "Japan is a horrible police state", when the law is enforced", if you're intereted in human right issues.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 19:30
It is Ok to enter , however I would keep sign like that.
if they keep to complain about that , they are not a customer

OK next time you go to a foreign country I hope you come across a sign that has "No Japanese" allowed and see how it feels.

You know most people live here like to think that Japan isnt a third world country, but with discriminatory practices like these it is hard to think otherwise.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 19:44
Just research why so many people incl. far-left activists or yakuza and media are saying "NO" against the controversial "Human Right Law", which the ruling coalition is eager to enact.



Please read my reply to Caster

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 20:13
No Japanese" allowed and see how it feels.

I dont care at all.
I look for other place. most japanese tend to not care about that.

there are so many like that in korea and china even in chinese hospital sign "No Japanese" allowed "
I am not specifying what race they are..

Dogen Z
Jun 18, 2007, 20:30
Japanese tend to be practical rather than idealistic. They don't feel entitled to everything and don't go where they're not wanted.

pipokun
Jun 18, 2007, 21:02
Please read my reply to Caster

Don't know which one or I don't know if you're naturalised or not, but the US govenment keeps biometric info of your wife or yours forever.
I guess you can get more money from the US govenment than Japanese hostess bars. But don't worry if I don't care about it.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 21:28
Don't know which one or I don't know if you're naturalised or not, but the US govenment keeps biometric info of your wife or yours forever.
I guess you can get more money from the US govenment than Japanese hostess bars. But don't worry if I don't care about it.

First off what the heck does my wife have to do with this discussion?

Secondly what else do you mean by saying that I can get more money from the US government?

Your post makes absolutely no sense to me.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 21:33
‚h@‚„‚‚Ž‚”@‚ƒ‚‚’‚…@at all.
I look for other place. most japanese tend to not care about that.
there are so many like that in korea and china even in chinese hospital sign "No Japanese" allowed "
I am not specifying what race they are..

You know you may not care, hence your unwillingness to view the issue from a "foreigners" point of view, but until Japanese people can get over discriminatory practices like these it will always be an issue with the foreigners that come here to live.

It's a shame too.

Mikawa Ossan
Jun 18, 2007, 21:49
You know you may not care, hence your unwillingness to view the issue from a "foreigners" point of view, but until Japanese people can get over discriminatory practices like these it will always be an issue with the foreigners that come here to live.
It's a shame too.OK, but I'm a "foreigner" and I happen to share Caster's point of view on this one as pertains to Japan. Does that mean that I'm not viewing the issue from a "foreigner's" point of view?

This is slightly off topic, but what I found exponentially more insulting were the "foreigner only" clubs I saw in Sri Lanka.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 21:55
Japanese tend to be practical rather than idealistic. They don't feel entitled to everything and don't go where they're not wanted.

I don't look at it this way, but rather Japanese people are less likely to confront something that they may feel is wrong or improper, rather than confront a situation or "make a scene" when they are discriminated against or told that they can't do something or go somewhere.

It has nothing to do with idealism imo.


OK, but I'm a "foreigner" and I happen to share Caster's point of view on this one as pertains to Japan. Does that mean that I'm not viewing the issue from a "foreigner's" point of view?
This is slightly off topic, but what I found exponentially more insulting were the "foreigner only" clubs I saw in Sri Lanka.

No it doesnt. However like I wrote it will continue to be an issue with many foreigners in Japan, because the practices are discriminatory.

It's easy to say what Caster did until he experiences it himself, I've experienced it more in mainland than here in Okinawa....but it still happens here depending on the location, and mostly it is in hostess clubs or bars, not "daytime" businesses.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 22:04
One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist, and because of it dont really care one way or the other, probably because they are not affected by issues like this in their daily lives.

It similar to the Japanese people that are shocked when they get refered to as "gaijin" when they travel overseas.

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 22:21
One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist
as a Japanese View, there is no discrimination in that sign with malice.
it is not discrimination at all because a Japanese says so honestry.
it is a paranoid.
because you contry is so....
it means it is full of discrimination
because you did that in your mind too....

it is simple.
recentry, police check the inside of bag at random in a certain city because of Knives.
a Foreigner was also done like that
he said " it is a gaijin discrimination of police in Japan....
However,.
many Japanese were also done.

KirinMan
Jun 18, 2007, 22:26
recentry, police check the inside of bag at random in a certain city because of Knives.
a Foreigner was also done like that
he said " it is a gaijin discrimination of police in Japan....
However,.
many Japanese were also done.

Believe it or not I agree with you here, I dont look at this situation as being discriminatory, not in the least. However when it comes to refusing service at a business only because the customer is caucasian or black that is another subject altogether. Businesses tend not to discriminate against fellow Asian's only those that dont "look" Asian.


it is a paranoid.

I agree here too, Japanese in these establishments that refuse service to the aformentioned "gaijin" are truly paranoid.

btw Caster my adopted country is Japan so .......

because you contry is so....

You are talking about Japan here.:-)

caster51
Jun 18, 2007, 22:30
Businesses tend not to discriminate against fellow Asian's only those that dont "look" Asian

sometime. we have a right to select the good customer for business, too

and those hostess bar dont not welcome all

pipokun
Jun 18, 2007, 23:33
One other thing here, I dont think that the average Japanese person is even aware that issues like this exist, and because of it dont really care one way or the other, probably because they are not affected by issues like this in their daily lives.
It similar to the Japanese people that are shocked when they get refered to as "gaijin" when they travel overseas.

Where can I meet the shocked Japanese? In your town? I think it is just a myth.
There are places "Nihonjin-yado" (guest houses whose main customers are Japanese) around the world, but not Japanese backpackers created them, but the owners did so. And of course, we have pro & con arguments if you prefer the guesthouse or not.

About the biometric info by the US, your wife is Japanese, right? All non-Americans have privilege. Do you think it is not discriminatory like what I think?

KirinMan
Jun 19, 2007, 05:19
About the biometric info by the US, your wife is Japanese, right? All non-Americans have privilege. Do you think it is not discriminatory like what I think?

I live in Japan, and so does my wife, this means nothing to either of us.

Mikawa Ossan
Jun 19, 2007, 19:06
I live in Japan, and so does my wife, this means nothing to either of us.
It means something, though, if the two of you should ever visit America. At that time the authorities would collect the information if I'm not mistaken.

I'm sure you can appreciate that what I assume Pipokun doesn't like about this is the principle of the matter. What do you feel about this in terms of principles?

Dogen Z
Jun 19, 2007, 19:13
>Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality<
I think your research methods are faulty.
Maybe it's not a big issue with the Japanese. There're many gay bars in Shinjuku where everyone is welcome (actors and actresses go there a lot) and there's even a gay TV star on prime time.
******
Continuing my previous post, Japanese don't go where they're not welcome because they wouldn't feel comfortable there. They understand that they'd get poor service and might spoil the joie de vivre of other people. This in turn would spoil their own enjoyment. So it's a common sense kind of thing.
They would say, "Shouganai," which means, "Oh well, let's find something better to do and forget about it." This is the so-called mystic Zen approach to life, very direct here and now--none of that idealistic nonsense of, "Well, where I come from we do so and so....."
Well, if you read up to this point, thank you for your attention. I'll keep posting to try to clear up more confusion in this confusing land.:wave:

KirinMan
Jun 19, 2007, 19:29
I'm sure you can appreciate that what I assume Pipokun doesn't like about this is the principle of the matter. What do you feel about this in terms of principles

I agree, in principle, however it isn't just the USA that collects data about it's guests or citizens.

It happens to all of us foreigners that live here in Japan as well.

I wonder how Pipokun or others feel about that, I've never heard of a Japanese person in Japan being forced to carry any identification on themselves at all times, nor having to report to the authorities, even if one has permanent residence status here, to renew their registration card.


>Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality<
I think your research methods are faulty.
Maybe it's not a big issue with the Japanese. There're many gay bars in Shinjuku where everyone is welcome (actors and actresses go there a lot) and there's even a gay TV star on prime time.
******


I'm sorry I missed this, is the bold face type a quote?

Dogen Z
Jun 24, 2007, 15:43
I'm sorry I missed this, is the bold face type a quote?

Yeah, sorry. It was a quote from one of the earliest post. I just wanted to point this guy into a more fruitful direction. (Please excuse the pun.:blush: )

Elizabeth van Kampen
Jun 24, 2007, 16:31
Maciamo rote:
Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?

Great! That is hitting the nail on the head. Looks like that so typical and fine sence of humor. Big smile!

Sorry meant to say; Looks like a British sence of humor!!

KirinMan
Jun 24, 2007, 17:52
Maciamo rote:
Isn't it strange that more Japanese fear living next to an homosexual or somebody who has AIDS than a criminal ?
Great! That is hitting the nail on the head. Looks like that so typical and fine sence of humor. Big smile!

Sorry meant to say; Looks like a British sence of humor!!

To be brutally honest here, outside of the "new-half" club or two that I have seen here in Okinawa, and a former boss that was a serious "flame" I dont see too many men or women that openly proclaim their sexual preferences here. It may be different in mainland, but I wonder if the "average" Japanese person would even know if they were living next to a homosexual person or couple.

Not that it really matters as a persons sexual preferences are their own. So I also wonder why a Japanese person would fear living next to a homosexual rather than a ex-con.

Elizabeth van Kampen
Jun 24, 2007, 18:37
Never lived in Japan Obeika,
But I am afraid you are absolute right. We had Chinese and a few Indonesians at our school in Malang, East-Java, but not one Japanese girl or boy. The Japanese children went to Japanese schools. Talking about before WWII of course. Now talking about 2007; we have many Japanese tourists in the Netherlands, especially in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. I still see them standing there sticking to themselves. There are quite some Japanese students in Amsterdam, alas they also stick to themselves.
Can't help thinking, each time I see those Japanese tourists, asking myself: Are they paying so much money to visit the Netherlands just to take so many pictures, with faces without any expression. No smile! Just standing there in front of Amsterdam's many bridges. Are they not even a little interested in the history of all those bridges? I don't think so by the look on the faces. No there is no interest, and there is no smile, just a clicking of the camera's.

I am not even a bit of a nationalist, my heart is still in Indonesia.
But you know, each time I walk through Amsterdam, I realize time and again that this town is fascinating and I can't help smiling.

Han Chan
Jun 24, 2007, 18:57
we have many Japanese tourists in the Netherlands, especially in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. I still see them standing there sticking to themselves. There are quite some Japanese students in Amsterdam, alas they also stick to themselves.
Can't help thinking, each time I see those Japanese tourists, asking myself: Are they paying so much money to visit the Netherlands just to take so many pictures, with faces without any expression. No smile! Just standing there in front of Amsterdam's many bridges. Are they not even a little interested in the history of all those bridges? I don't think so by the look on the faces. No there is no interest, and there is no smile, just a clicking of the camera's.

Actually I thought that I had the same experience in Copenhagen. However, now that I understand some japanese I realize that many of the groups travelling with tourbusses are chinese and koreans. Increasingly japanese are travelling around Europe individually. Recently I made the same observation in Belgium and Holland: every time I thought that a big noisy group of asian tourist were japanese, I realised that they were not speaking japanese!

For many of the older japanese the main problem is their lacking language skills. My mother-law is travelling with group tours to different european contries every year, however, when visiting Denmark she really enjoys travelling individually. She would certainly like to travel individually around Europe, but because of her limited language skill she does not dare to.

The problem with tourist paying more attention to each other in their group than the historical places they visit is a universal problem regarding mass-tourism - not a particular japanese behaviour. Actually, I noticed that young japanese for some reason always smile, making "peace sign" while saying "cheesu", when having their photo taken!

pipokun
Jun 24, 2007, 19:48
Maciamo rote:
I don't like talking someone not here, but it is also true his outspokenness did not prevent him from getting his permanent resident status here. It was highly likely he would have had his right to be naturalised, if he had wished so. It was, however, just his cost/benefit analysis, EU or Japan passport.

I don't know how many anti-G8 summit activists will be in Toyako, Hokkaido, next year, but you can find good hot springs there. Of course, tourists have right to be loud here, but go naked in hot springs, not on the streets there.

Glenski
Jun 27, 2007, 06:50
caster wrote:

there are many Restaurant@that@refuse customers without letter of introductionAnd to do so without a legitimate reason is against the law. Same for hotels. Same for bathhouses. You say "Japanese only" signs merely serve to "distinguish" not discriminate. That's a crock. Letting in Koreans or Chinese but not other nationalities is discrimination. Who is to say that either of those nationalities speaks Japanese? Who is to say that other nationalities cannot? Going to a bar does not mean you have to speak Japanese anyway. People often just sit and chat with each other. It doesn't take JLPT 1 fluency to order a beer. Japan signed the anti-discrimination treaty in 1995 (twelve long years ago) and still refuses to do anything about it. That is not "distinguishing". Besides, "distinguishing" in the technical sense of the word as you have written here is blatant discrimination. Japan cries about wanting to have a seat on the UN security council, but it clearly shows no respect for human rights in many cases. You, caster, may feel it's nothing to see a sign that says a person is unwanted, and you may just go to the next place, but what if there is no next place? And, what about the principle of equal rights in the first place?

Dogen Z
Jun 28, 2007, 22:03
Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night. Country clubs can keep non-members from playing on their courses. In some cases membership requires recommendations from 2 members. I could go on but I'd have to charge you so I'll let you do your own research. Gambatte ne.

junjunforever
Jun 29, 2007, 02:53
Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night. Country clubs can keep non-members from playing on their courses. In some cases membership requires recommendations from 2 members. I could go on but I'd have to charge you so I'll let you do your own research. Gambatte ne.

i think the difference is about open discrimination and forged discrimination. Obviously, government cannot stop all forged discrimination. There are just too many loopholes.

Although discrimination in japan does exist, i think it is quite benign and no worse than its neighboring countries. I would say China or Korea would have a worse record when its about treating foreigners right.


There were comments about tourists so let me comment on that. I think in general, Koreans are the most likely to study abroad or go out on tourism in the under 35 groups. Many people will just like to go out on a back packing tours. As noted before, the problem with japanese tourists are their love of just visiting all the sites that are famous on post-cards. The problem with Korean tourists is that the older generation will just like to see/say/realize how their korean culture is superior.

I think koreans and chinese are too proud of their cultures (claiming cultural superiority over other cultures) and this is one aspect japan has the best record in the region.

cyan
Aug 25, 2007, 05:06
I think koreans and chinese are too proud of their cultures (claiming cultural superiority over other cultures) and this is one aspect japan has the best record in the region.

:clueless: What does this have to do with discrimination in Japan? Not all Koreans or Chinese think our culture is superior.

I think there's a difference in discrimination when it comes to discriminating for where you come from and discrimination when it comes to what you do. You can change what you do, but you can't change where you come from. Ethnicity is ascribed and job is given.

jmwintenn
Aug 30, 2007, 17:11
im sorry to say this,but anyone from the US can't say anything about equal rights and discrimination because it's still as big(bigger in my honest opinion)than it was in the 50s.

If a white person calls a black person a nigger,there are litterally teams of lawyers who work for free to take every possession and cent the white person has.If a black person calls a white person a cracker or w/e,nothing happens,whitey has to suck it up and move on.

If a white person hits anyone other than a white person they can slap a hate crime sticker on it,but it rarely works in the opposite direction.

Hell,a sheriff got fired a few counties over from mine for deporting illegal aliens

Also,any and all ethnic people and women get considered for a job before a white person

I'm not a racist or bigot or anything,but before we can help other countries and preach to them on our soapbox we need to get our stuff straight.

Personally I think it's sad that we let other races climb higher than us,because that just tosses their favored "we want equal rights" yell right out the window,they don't want equal rights,they want to be superior.

Elizabeth van Kampen
Aug 30, 2007, 17:44
Comparing Japan and the World always ends in, comparing Japan and America.

As from May 1945 peace has come down on Europe, where once were so many wars. Many of our countries are united into the European Union and that while we are all quite different and we have so many different languages, yet "no more wars in our Europe" was the device. I just hope that one day even Russia will slowly turn towards to the Europeans.

I believe that Japan is slowly busy trying something similar in Asia. It will also take many years before it begins to work, but a positive start is always welcome in our whole world.

jmwintenn
Sep 1, 2007, 15:50
Comparing Japan and the World always ends in, comparing Japan and America.


If that was directed at me,I didn't compare Japan to America at all. I pointed out the flaws with America to make the point of a nation can't hope to improve/help others until they can fix their own domestic squables

GodEmperorLeto
Sep 3, 2007, 05:28
As from May 1945 peace has come down on Europe, where once were so many wars. Many of our countries are united into the European Union and that while we are all quite different and we have so many different languages, yet "no more wars in our Europe" was the device.
Umm, Falkland Islands? Milošević? France slowly becoming a Muslim country?

If Europe is at peace, it isn't because of some noble ideal. It is because the last war was so devastating that it became apparent that the next one would annihilate everyone, hence, you guys pretty much sat back and let Stalin roll tanks into the entire Eastern half of your continent.

Beyond that, you've abandoned your empires and fostered massive amounts of civil unrest throughout the third world by leaving power vacuums behind. Umm, yeah, the United States is guilty of imperialistic activities, but a lot of our actions are because we are cleaning up messes that you guys so casually left behind, messes that are, often enough, intrinsically tied to resources that our entire economy rests upon.

In addition, economic prosperity is the primary reason for banding together into the European Union, not some humanitarian ideal. Sorry, people aren't that altruistic. Money is more important than peace, and if people think peace makes money, then by all means, they support and foster it.


I believe that Japan is slowly busy trying something similar in Asia. It will also take many years before it begins to work, but a positive start is always welcome in our whole world.

Well, they've got a long way to go when it comes to reconciling with their neighbors, and changing their history books isn't doing the job.

uyoku
Feb 20, 2008, 09:37
I agree that the younger Japanese are usually more open-minded than their elders (also less critical). But hentai manga isn't really the way to judge people's acceptance of homosexuality in real life ! Like in most Western countries, lesbians are more easily accepted than male gays in Japan, especially if they are bisexual (some men really fantasize women like that). But it's still a big no-no to admit yo are gay in Japan.
So do you think it is better to be openminded and freewheeling all the time than comparatively closed minded? Did you know what caused the collapse of the Roman empire. It was the homosexuals that were allowed into the military. Why do you critisize the Japanese for. They are discriminating connoisseurs of good taste. They are openminded to the good things and import the good stuff while exporting and getting rid of the bad stuff, yet making quality products of export. To be openminded and opening yourself to freedom of everything exposes you to illegal activities and the sort, like illegal drugs, diseases and filth from other societies. Japanese people are discriminating because they rationalize what is good and what is bad. Affiliation with those of bad moral qualities will bring you down. You must have a balance of open mindedness to the good and close minded to the bad. Yet you seem to preach a freewheeling openminded society and that is anarchy. There would be no order of any kind.

MadamePapillon
Feb 20, 2008, 13:23
There is something sooo wrong with your logic...:mad:

Kyoto Returnee
Feb 20, 2008, 16:31
It's very obvious to me in regards to taboos, discrimination, racism, extremism, and all the other bad things in Japan.. But that's just me..

I personally don't think it would worry most Westerners from Western countries, but it may be more of a concern for let's say Chinese or Asians from Western countries whilst they are living in Japan.

Japan obviously has many good points if you are willing to put the bad points to one side, let the Japanese sort themselves out, and you get on with life whilst living their..

I love the healthy food, safety factor (In Kyoto), the conservatism (In Kyoto), service, accuracy, punctuality and just the overall feel..

The biggest problem I have is making to many female friends and then my wife not feeling good so the friendships have to end.. Yes, friends only, not sex friends!

Their are MANY bad points, and I could write a book, but I won't as this posts get mighty long as it is!

dongdong
Apr 1, 2008, 12:35
Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.

For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.

However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.

brave_new_world
Apr 2, 2008, 17:56
Japanese people simply hate people with dark skin because Japanese people tend to regard people with dark skin as unclean.
That's plain racist in my opinion.



Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.
For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.
However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.

Mars Man
Apr 2, 2008, 18:06
Making such sweeping generalizations, dongdong san and brave_new_world san, which do not reflect quite a true and accurate picture of Japan today, only leads to the tarnish of any position you two may wish to propagate.

What you have said is simply not the whole picture, nor a very so accurate cause for whatever degree of aversion towards darker skinned people there may be.

There is no such thing as race, anyway, so I would like to propose here...in other words, I am requesting... that you two stay away from such blanket statements, and those few cases that you may wish to present, that you provide valid background information on them.

Thank you. Mars Man

dongdong
Apr 2, 2008, 23:17
It's not a generalization. It is my friend's experience.
Even if you regard as a generalization, you haven't seen some Japanese man with black girl as a couple.
I have never seen any Japanese guy dating black girl.
I saw some Korean guys or Laosean guys or Thai guys dating some black girls.


Making such sweeping generalizations, dongdong san and brave_new_world san, which do not reflect quite a true and accurate picture of Japan today, only leads to the tarnish of any position you two may wish to propagate.
What you have said is simply not the whole picture, nor a very so accurate cause for whatever degree of aversion towards darker skinned people there may be.
There is no such thing as race, anyway, so I would like to propose here...in other words, I am requesting... that you two stay away from such blanket statements, and those few cases that you may wish to present, that you provide valid background information on them.
Thank you. Mars Man

tokapi
Apr 2, 2008, 23:52
Well ... so far,I have only seen an actual pairing of Japan-born Japanese boyfriend & American black girlfriend ( they were dating at that time according to their own personal story ) on one local Asian language TV channel website celebrated " diversity month " back in 2005.

Tokis-Phoenix
Apr 3, 2008, 00:12
The main thing which surprises me is the statistic about Japanese not wanting to live next to homosexuals. I had always read that certainly in the past, homosexuality was not looked down upon or discriminated in Japan, it was rife amongst many professions and many people knew about it yet no one seemed to really care much about it either way- it was one of those "what you do in your own time behind private doors" is your own business sort of thing.
But things seem to have obviously changed according to Maciamo's statistics. Is this because of western influence since the post war years?

caster51
Apr 5, 2008, 09:03
things seem to have obviously changed according to Maciamo's statistics. Is this because of western influence since the post war years?

http://park11.wakwak.com/~siori/dansyoku.html

Japan is not Christianity
it was not sin...

then Japan was influenced to change oppositly as iniquity because of Meiji policy
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/&#37;E7%94%B7%E8%89%B2
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/mizo-iza/e/c35680ab2026bfd3cf0c30b03ae14fbc

check 男色 out...
http://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%94%B7%E8%89%B2&um=1&hl=ja&lr=&ndsp=20&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw


so was women's status ?
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1377400

hsakakibara1
Aug 16, 2008, 02:22
Searching Google, I have found the following results for the above keywords :
- “―©ˆ€ => 661
- ƒzƒ‚ƒZƒNƒVƒ…ƒAƒ‹ => 9,000
- homosexual => 3,790,000
- homosexuality => 3,690,000
- gay => 52,300,000
- homosexualite (with accent on the "e") => 433,000
Again, even anonymously on the web, the Japanese very rarely discuss or write about homosexuality.
These stats are slanted. Most readers of Japanese are in Japan, but readers of English are all over the world. If Japanese was the world lingua franca, I am sure you would see similar results.
Also we have 4-6 major monthly gay mags, and so many Japanese gay websites. Try using Japanese web sites and you will find almost countless sites. No, Japan is not as homophobic as many foreigners like to think it to be.

A ke bono kane kotto
Aug 16, 2008, 17:50
These stats are slanted. Most readers of Japanese are in Japan, but readers of English are all over the world. If Japanese was the world lingua franca, I am sure you would see similar results.
Also we have 4-6 major monthly gay mags, and so many Japanese gay websites. Try using Japanese web sites and you will find almost countless sites. No, Japan is not as homophobic as many foreigners like to think it to be.

Try in other European languages :

492,000 for homoseksualiteit (Dutch)
1,520,000 for omosessualita (Italian)
1,590,000 for Homosexualitaet (German)
6,550,000 for homosexualite (French)

Each have much less native speakers than Japanese.


Japanese people simply hate people with dark skin because Japanese people tend to regard people with dark skin as unclean.
That's plain racist in my opinion.

Sometimes it's true. Look at the homeless in Japan.

A ke bono kane kotto
Aug 16, 2008, 17:55
Japan is quite a different country in terms of racial prejudice.
For example, the US is a melting pot. It is a country where people from all around the world gather together.
However, Japan is quite different. They favour a particular races, esp white people from the US, Canada, and Australia.
They favour white Americans than Black Americans.
They favour white Americans than Asians such as Thais or Malaysians or Chineses.
That's why it is easy for Americans to enter in Japan while people from South East Asia or China or Africa have difficulty entering Japan.

There are more South-East Asians than Caucasian people in Japan. Maybe it's not that difficult for them to enter Japan.

RolandtheHeadless
Jan 21, 2009, 17:44
"Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against certain classes...for example, in the States, a landlord can refuse to rent his property to lawyers and rock musicians because the former tend so to sue a lot and the latter tends to makes too much noise late at night."

Landlords can also discriminate against those with bad credit and child molestors. We can classify people in many ways, but not all classes are equal for purposes of anti-discrimination laws. There is no history in the US of prevailing discrimination against lawyers and rock musicians.

US anti-discrimination laws are usually aimed at protecting the immutable classes of race, ethnicity, sex, etc.

Dogen Z
Aug 8, 2009, 20:38
Are you prejudice free? I don't think so. It's built into us, a survival mechanism from the time our ancestors lived in the African plain. If you think otherwise, just take this test: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html

The Japanese discriminate on a number of variables, even among each other. I think we all do. Nationality is one component, but eductation and status takes precedent, I think. For example, an Indian IT engineer may be rated higher than say an European IT engineer because of the status of India's IT prowess.

So discrimination is a complex issue, and we can't assume we're better than the Japanese. Don't expect instant acceptance, it's not the Japanese way. In general, though, if you can demonstrate you're a respectable person, the Japanese will treat you with respect. If you're loud, pushy, inflexible, and impractical, you won't be respected, even if you're Japanese.

Dogen Z
Aug 10, 2009, 22:10
Are you prejudice free? I don't think so. It's built into us, a survival mechanism from the time our ancestors lived in the African plain. If you think otherwise, just take this test: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html

The Japanese discriminate on a number of variables, even among each other. I think we all do. Nationality is one component, but eductation and status takes precedent, I think. For example, an Indian IT engineer may be rated higher than say an European IT engineer because of the status of India's IT prowess.

So discrimination is a complex issue, and we can't assume we're better than the Japanese. Don't expect instant acceptance, it's not the Japanese way. In general, though, if you can demonstrate you're a respectable person, the Japanese will treat you with respect. If you're loud, pushy, inflexible, and impractical, you won't be respected, even if you're Japanese.

Did anyone take the test? How'd you do?

Kurtle
Aug 16, 2009, 06:24
A criminal record could mean anything though - It's a massive umbrella term.

RolandtheHeadless
Sep 5, 2009, 17:22
"Don't know which one or I don't know if you're naturalised or not, but the US govenment keeps biometric info of your wife or yours forever."

What is your proof for that claim? How is this biometric data collected, and by whom? Exactly what biometric data are you talking about?

My Japanese wife, who's now a naturalized US citizen, was never subjected to the US government's collection of biometric data. The only government that ever did that to her was the Japanese government, when she worked for the Consulate here. They took her fingerprints and required her to get annual medical tests and exams, with the results turned over to the Japanese government.

I suppose they have spies that follow us around, peeping in our windows, eating donuts in the morning with their FBI buddies.