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  1. #1
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Arrow Common Japanese misconceptions regarding foreigners

    I have summarised here most of the ideas discussed in the past months regarding Japanese misconceptions and prejudices toward foreigners.

    Feel free to further discuss it here if you wish.

    NB : Due to the large number of replies and isolated discussions in this thread, I suggest that you view it in Hybrid Mode
    Last edited by Maciamo; May 5, 2005 at 09:55.

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  2. #2
    Jacques Rocks! Jungle Boy's Avatar
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    That is a very intersting list indeed, thanks for sharing it. But I think it's the same in every country and definatly not unique to Japan. You would be amazed (if you don't already know) at the general ignorance people in North America have towards Japan and even European countries. I was quite often reminded of thier ignorance when I read the article. I think the best thing anyone can do is try to be the exact opposite of the stereotype. Try to be respectable and cultured and eventually they will have no choice but to realize that those myths just arent true and hopefully, over time a better understanding will occur..

  3. #3
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Boy
    That is a very intersting list indeed, thanks for sharing it. But I think it's the same in every country and definatly not unique to Japan. You would be amazed (if you don't already know) at the general ignorance people in North America have towards Japan and even European countries.
    As I mentioned before, North America is NOT every country, but an exception. Most Europeans are not as ignorant about Japan as Japanese are about any other countries, even their own neighbours. Do you realise that most Japanese know very little about Korea and China, a 2h flight away (nearer than the other end of Japan, wherever they live). Allmost all the Japanese people I told that Korea and China had cherry, ume or peach blossom, and that these countries had 4 seasons were surprised. It's like saying that most US citizens would be surprised to learn that it snows in winter in Canada, or for Canadians to be surprised that it could be hot in summer in Arizona. Are you telling me that the North Americans you know are so ignorant ??

  4. #4
    Jacques Rocks! Jungle Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    As I mentioned before, North America is NOT every country, but an exception. Most Europeans are not as ignorant about Japan as Japanese are about any other countries, even their own neighbours. Do you realise that most Japanese know very little about Korea and China, a 2h flight away (nearer than the other end of Japan, wherever they live). Allmost all the Japanese people I told that Korea and China had cherry, ume or peach blossom, and that these countries had 4 seasons were surprised. It's like saying that most US citizens would be surprised to learn that it snows in winter in Canada, or for Canadians to be surprised that it could be hot in summer in Arizona. Are you telling me that the North Americans you know are so ignorant ??
    Actually I am... Some Americans actually think all Canadians live in igloos with polar bears and all the police are on horseback.... Alot of Canadians (who are ignorant because of the education system much like in Japan) have no clue about countries like the US and Mexico that are on the same continent. Not everyone mind you but a good percentage don't know alot about them and don't care. Like I said before, it's a problem everywhere.

  5. #5
    Anjin Brooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Boy
    Some Americans actually think all Canadians live in igloos with polar bears and all the police are on horseback....
    Igloos? I think that might be going a little far. I think some Canadians often imagine the misconceptions about them. A twelve year old might have some misconceptions, but I think most Americans think Canada is very similar to America (which probably makes Canadians angrier than wild misconceptions ).

    But I agree that stupid people are everywhere and ridiculous misconceptions happen everywhere.
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  6. #6
    The Geezer Sensuikan San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooker
    A twelve year old might have some misconceptions, but I think most Americans think Canada is very similar to America (which probably makes Canadians angrier than wild misconceptions )
    You're right on the button, bud ! It does.

    I can only asume that the reverse is true !

    Regards

    (Don't blame me - I'm British !) ジョン
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    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooker
    But I agree that stupid people are everywhere and ridiculous misconceptions happen everywhere.
    What titillates my interest is the constancy and homogeneity of Japanese misconceptions. It always seem to be the same erroneous ideas that come back again and again, regardless of the person's socio-economic background or region of origin within Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooker
    Igloos? I think that might be going a little far. I think some Canadians often imagine the misconceptions about them. A twelve year old might have some misconceptions, but I think most Americans think Canada is very similar to America (which probably makes Canadians angrier than wild misconceptions ).

    But I agree that stupid people are everywhere and ridiculous misconceptions happen everywhere.
    I am an american, was born in colorado, moved to canada when i was six years old, and then moved back to the usa when i was 18. I kind of consider myself more of a canadian than an american since I grew up and went through grades 2-12 there, and I hold both USA and Canadian citizenship. When people ask me what nationality I am... i usually reply that I am canadian. Once I explain how I was born in colorado, and moved to canada etc... I have been asked by many people in the USA if "it was hard living with no roads, traffic lights, etc", or "if its good to be back in civilized america"... i was dumbfounded by the idiocy of many of the questions. Now, I am in NO WAY saying that all americans think like this... just that it does happen more often than some would expect.

    There are many problems with ignorance in Canada too though. Many people when they knew I was an american in canada, hated me outright for being an american, no matter who I was or what I liked. I was hated MUCH more for being an american in canada than i am for being "mostly" a canadian in the USA now. I recieved comments in Canada like "goddamn george bush lover", without them knowing if I even support him or not... and "stop attacking other countries you evil *****", while I obviously don't have control over the US military, and without them knowing if i support the USA's current foreign policy or not. But not everyone is like this there obviously, im just saying that this happens more in canada than the usa.

    That said though... there probably aren't as close to as many ignorant canadians about the USA as ignorant americans about canada, mostly due to american culture being totally rampant in canada (for example. tons of the channels on cable TV in canada are american channels, and channels which aren't american have mostly american programs on them anyways). I sometimes consider Canada the "51st state" (in a joking way), since they are similar in so many ways.

    please note that im using the term "american" as reffering to the USA.
    Last edited by zeroyon; May 4, 2005 at 16:32.

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    TAN Hiroyuki Nagashima's Avatar
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    In a thought.
    I meditate for a while.
    Japanese misunderstanding
    1.Do not say GAIJIN!
    2.An education system of a school is bad!
    3.Do not treat a foreigner like a criminal!
    4.Do not discriminate against a foreigner at a hotel, a restaurant!
    5.A foreigner can use chopsticks, too!
    6.Do not refuse conversation with the foreigner who can speak Japanese!
    7.Don't be proud of there being the four seasons, and there are even other countries.
    8.Japan is not origin "Christmas" "Valentine"!
    9.A CD, a video game are not invented on the telephone in Japan.
    10.If a Japanese watched a white man, they think with an American!
    11.Do not think that all Westerners speak English!
    12.A Japanese student has a short time learning geography!
    Is it such a meaning?
    Translation is difficult.

  10. #10
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    1.Do not say GAIJIN!
    2.An education system of a school is bad!
    3.Do not treat a foreigner like a criminal!
    4.Do not discriminate against a foreigner at a hotel, a restaurant!
    5.A foreigner can use chopsticks, too!
    6.Do not refuse conversation with the foreigner who can speak Japanese!
    7.Don't be proud of there being the four seasons, and there are even other countries.
    8.Japan is not origin "Christmas" "Valentine"!
    9.A CD, a video game are not invented on the telephone in Japan.
    10.If a Japanese watched a white man, they think with an American!
    11.Do not think that all Westerners speak English!
    12.A Japanese student has a short time learning geography!
    Is it such a meaning?
    Translation is difficult.
    Yes, that's pretty much what I meant.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroyuki Nagashima
    8.Japan is not origin "Christmas" "Valentine"!
    9.A CD, a video game are not invented on the telephone in Japan.


    When I think about something like "every foreigner speaks English", I would assume it means that you're able to comunicate in English when you go to a foreign country... But this isn't even related to the topic too much

    I had a Japanese friend who said that he used to think all foreigners speak Japanese with an American accent. When he saw a documentary about people studying Japanese in Europe, he was really surprised to find out their accent wasn't quite so American! Well, to be more accurate: he thought most foreigners speak Japanese with a thick American accent and was surprised when he noticed that foreigners are able to pronounce words the japanese way (e.g. for Finns pronouncing Japanese isn't quite as difficult as the Finnish pronunciation is much, much closer to japanese than English.) I was very surprised by what he said because I'd never assume something like that...
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  12. #12
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miu
    I had a Japanese friend who said that he used to think all foreigners speak Japanese with an American accent.
    Yes, among Westerners it's mostly native-speakers of Germanic languages, and especially English, that have problems with the Japanese pronuciation. All Latin languages, Finnish, Greek, etc speakers have all the Japanese sounds in their language (except the "h" for Latins, but that they can replace by a soft "f").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Yes, among Westerners it's mostly native-speakers of Germanic languages, and especially English, that have problems with the Japanese pronuciation. All Latin languages, Finnish, Greek, etc speakers have all the Japanese sounds in their language (except the "h" for Latins, but that they can replace by a soft "f").
    I'm quite sure that the Japanese /u/ doesn't exist in Finnish as well as the /r/. I had to pay serious attention to the Japanese /r/ because it's so different - we roll our r's much more And the pronunciation of /u/ in Japanese is much closer to the Swedish /u/, so I don't think it exists in Finnish... But I could be wrong, though!

  14. #14
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miu
    I'm quite sure that the Japanese /u/ doesn't exist in Finnish as well as the /r/. I had to pay serious attention to the Japanese /r/ because it's so different - we roll our r's much more And the pronunciation of /u/ in Japanese is much closer to the Swedish /u/, so I don't think it exists in Finnish... But I could be wrong, though!
    True, but if you pronounce Japanese r's as l's, they will understand. Just roll you l's a bit and you'll sound like a Japanese. The Japanese 'u' is between the French 'u' and 'ou'. It's true that it's not exactly the same, but the Japanese themselves sometimes pronounce it more like one or the other, depending on the word.

  15. #15
    Your Goddess is here Ma Cherie's Avatar
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    Japanese people think their the only country that has four seasons, please tell me that's lie.
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  16. #16
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Cherie
    Japanese people think their the only country that has four seasons, please tell me that's lie.
    Please come to Japan and see for yourself.

  17. #17
    Chukchi Salmon lexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Cherie
    Japanese people think their the only country that has four seasons, please tell me that's lie.
    I'm sure you've come across at least a hundred posts regarding the 4-seasons matter. It's hilarious, but it seems to be true. I don't think anybody complaining are exaggerating.

    On the other hand, I tend not to think there is genuine sarcasm when a Japanese said it, in general. It can be considered insincere, ignorant, and even blatantly rude for people from more direct, transparent cultures, I understand. And of course there must be at least a handful of Japanese who are truely xenophobic. But in most cases (I'm extrapolating from my limited experience with the Japanese) couldn't it be considered a mildly exaggerated surprise at finding something common about another country ?

    When nothing is to be taken for granted, such as seeing a baby take its first step, or babling the first intelligible word, everybody's amazed. Now are they being ridiculous or sarcastic ? This may be a bad analogy, but I could also talk about aliens from another planet. I think there are positive ways of looking at the same thing.

    But I can't criticize those who feel mistreated, and when the Japanese learn that fact, I'm sure they will stop. The modern norms of hospitality and PC-ness can be quite damaging, and people of both cultures should really seriously look at how to interface without major misunderstanding. It's not something everyone can grow into by long exposure.
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  18. #18
    Your Goddess is here Ma Cherie's Avatar
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    I would like to travel to Japan, but I'll probably be a freak of nature being black and all. It'll be something I'll learn to deal with. That is something hard to believe, I felt like laughing when I heard that lots of japanese believe their the only country with four seasons. But I'm not one to laugh at other peoples ignorance, no matter how hard it is not to. This just my opinion, but it seems to me that japanese people tend to display their ingnorance about other countries, than anyone I've ever met. I'm not saying that Americans and other people aren't ignorant about other countries, I'm just saying from what I have learned it seems that the japanese show it more. But then again, I could be wrong.

  19. #19
    The Geezer Sensuikan San's Avatar
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    I have very little experience of this, but I would suggest that the Japanese are very little different from anyone else with regard to their ignorance of another country.

    I work for an American company, in Canada. On a daily basis I have to listen to almost continual whines from a select few colleagues who claim " Those ****** Americans just don't understand Canada !" As a non-Canadian with a history of working with Americans .... I am also aware that, in so many respects, those same Canadians are pretty damned ignorant of American attitudes and practices !

    It amuses me.

    I am also amused by the ignorance displayed by Europeans, wether they be British, German, French - you name it - with regard to both countries! (They all - with the possible exception of Russians - seem to have a particular problem with grasping a concept of the sheer size of the U.S. and Canada).

    I also remember my own problems of coming to terms with a (slightly) different culture, too. That, now,also amuses me.

    No, infuriating though it may be to some - I wouldn't say that the Japanese are unique in this regard. We're all a little weird sometimes.......

    And ... incidentally .... How can anybody claim that Lamb is bland ? Compared with pork ?

    It's enough to make me want to burn my entire collection of Australian Womens Weekly cook-books ! (Mutter, mutter ...grumble....grumble...)


    Regards,

    ジョン

  20. #20
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensuikan San
    I have very little experience of this, but I would suggest that the Japanese are very little different from anyone else with regard to their ignorance of another country.

    I work for an American company, in Canada. On a daily basis I have to listen to almost continual whines from a select few colleagues who claim " Those ****** Americans just don't understand Canada !" As a non-Canadian with a history of working with Americans .... I am also aware that, in so many respects, those same Canadians are pretty damned ignorant of American attitudes and practices !
    I think you are going a step further by raising the issue not just of basic factual knowledge (Canada does have snow in winter), but cultural differences. It is much more difficult to understand another (or even one's own) country's culture (i.e. the commonly accepted attitudes, practices, customs and way of thinking), than hard facts about a country (capital, flag colours, climate, population, main languages, etc.). I do not have any problem with the Japanese not understanding other countries' culture, as this is universal. What surprised me is their general ignorance of some very basic facts about the rest of the world. I heard university-educated people who thought that Argentina was in Europe, that Napoleon was an armoured knight from the Middle Ages, that Belgian people spoke Belgian (have you ever heard of a language called Belgian ? Ever !?), or that only Japan had four seasons. A recent study has shown that 3% of Japanese university students (and they have presumably tough entrance examinations) cannot point out at the US on a world map, and 44% don't know where is Iraq ! Don't even get me started about people with less good education.

    I'd be interested to have comparative studies on general knowledge with Western countries. However I expect the Americans average to be close to the Japanese one, as surveys have shown that an incredibly high number of Americans think New York is their capital ! (of course, even 1% would be an incredibly high number, but I think it was more like 20%).

  21. #21
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    I'm curious about this 4 seasons thing as I cant wrap my head around it.

    By 4 seasons do they mean 4 obviously discernale seasons or the naming.

    I mean one can argue that Australia has two seasons, but we still follow the 4 season model of Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring. When Japanese asked me if Australia has four season I would always reply that of course we did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PopCulturePooka View Post
    I'm curious about this 4 seasons thing as I cant wrap my head around it.
    By 4 seasons do they mean 4 obviously discernale seasons or the naming.
    I mean one can argue that Australia has two seasons, but we still follow the 4 season model of Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring. When Japanese asked me if Australia has four season I would always reply that of course we did.
    Really??? That's interesting.... In Indonesia, we have 2 season..... but we never said that we have four season....

  23. #23
    Go to shopping PopCulturePooka's Avatar
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    I had a student who didn't know where the Eifel Tower was.
    Two IBM systems engineers or somesuch who couldnt tell me the first man on the moon.

    Comedy gold.

  24. #24
    I jump to conclusions mad pierrot's Avatar
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    but I think it was more like 20%).
    20%!??

    That seems high to me, I'd like to see the data backing it up. I've never met anyone who made that mistake, but hey, maybe I just naturally gravitate towards intelligent people.


    Regardless, I think the question at hand here is not Japan's level of ignorance about foreign culture. (Or anyother nations ignorance about any other place, for that matter.) Instead, I think it has to do with Japan's level of ignorance about its own culture. Not knowing something outside of one's culture/experience is nothing special. (As it has been demonstrated in the thread.) But why should those particular things (four seasons, etc) be unique to Japan? What has lead them to think so? That's what I'd like to know. I would say it might be Japan's isolation, but it has had more than ample time to grow accustomed foreign culture. Why does it still persist? I don't know. After being in the education business for a few years now, I have suspicions. Teachers are perpetuating many of these myths, that's for sure. (I was giving a presentation on American not too long ago, and heard my teacher announce to the class "America isn't humid.")

  25. #25
    Twirling dragon Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad pierrot
    I would say it might be Japan's isolation, but it has had more than ample time to grow accustomed foreign culture.
    Especially that countries like Norway, Finland, Ireland or New Zealand are not less isolated, and probably all (but NZ) have less foreigners than Japan.

    Why does it still persist? I don't know. After being in the education business for a few years now, I have suspicions. Teachers are perpetuating many of these myths, that's for sure. (I was giving a presentation on American not too long ago, and heard my teacher announce to the class "America isn't humid.")
    Education certainly has a lot to do with it. Especially that it is controlled very closely by the government, which wants to make all their citizens feel that Japan is (superiorly) unique in the world. That's indoctrination. Japan and China aren't that different regarding government and education. The way they proceed is the same. The difference is the content (communist propaganda in China vs "unique culture and country" in Japan).

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