% Of Taiwanese Wanting Independence?

[Silverbackman]

Does anyone know and have some sources to back up the current % of Taiwanese wanting independence?

[godppgo]

Depends on what do you mean by independence. Taiwanese have different view and opinions on the term independence. To me, Taiwanese have nerver had their own country(yet) and have always been colonized by others (with the latest being the Chinese).

[mingo]

Depends on what do you mean by independence. Taiwanese have different view and opinions on the term independence. To me, Taiwanese have nerver had their own country(yet) and have always been colonized by others (with the latest being the Chinese).

Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too and korea is colonized by korean, japan is colonized by japanese

[godppgo]

Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too and korea is colonized by korean, japan is colonized by japanese

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[4321go]

Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too and korea is colonized by korean, japan is colonized by japanese

well~ interesting state.

[yukio_michael]

Independance from China? All? I'm pretty sure I'm not high-balling this number, if the guns pointed at China's mainland and the threats of violence against Taiwan during the Olympics are anything to go on.

Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too [...]

Colonization generally means lack of sovreignty, you are not as a nation independant to make and decide your own future, laws, destiny etc, it's pretty straight forward. Saying that the rest of China (assides from Tibet etc), is 'colonized' is like saying London is colonized by Brittons, it's patently wrong.

This is why Viet Nam wanted the French out, this is why Hong Kong wanted Britain out, colonization, look it up some time.

[Minty]

Does anyone know and have some sources to back up the current % of Taiwanese wanting independence?

I don’t know about the percentage but there is a scandal that President Chen Sui Bien used tricks to win his election. I know not all Taiwanese want independence; there is a large economic tie between China and Taiwan. I think a war will kill it, I am not a big fan of wars, I hope they can resolve this matter in some other way.

Anyway, I did a search and I found an article which says one-third of the people want independence.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw.../09/2003296457

[godppgo]

I don’t know about the percentage but there is a scandal that President Chen Sui Bien used tricks to win his election. I know not all Taiwanese want independence; there is a large economic tie between China and Taiwan. I think a war will kill it, I am not a big fan of wars, I hope they can resolve this matter in some other way.
Anyway, I did a search and I found an article which says one-third of the people want independence.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw.../09/2003296457

If I were you, I wouldn't take Taiwanese media info too seriously. Taiwanese media are known for their bias and obvious political stand when it comes to political/economical issues. I find foreign media such as BBC to have a more objective take on Taiwan strait issues.

[Minty]

If I were you, I wouldn't take Taiwanese media info too seriously. Taiwanese media are known for their bias and obvious political stand when it comes to political/economical issues. I find foreign media such as BBC to have a more objective take on Taiwan strait issues.

Ok, lets take a look at the others then:

http://www.watchingamerica.com/lefigaro0000108.shtml

With remarkable consistency, some 80 percent of the 23 million Taiwanese oppose any revision of the status quo. Simply put, they overwhelmingly oppose both independence and reunification.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4758410.stm

This one says they are torn over independance.

[osias]

Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too and korea is colonized by korean, japan is colonized by japanese

In a sense, yes, but colonization implies oppression. If they totally identify with the country, then it's not colonization at all.

Former President Li Denghui says he was Japanese up to the age of 20. But from the today's point of view, he was a Taiwanese under Japanese rule.

It's all a matter of identity, a sense of where they belong. Okinawa belongs to Japan, so the people from Okinawa are Japanese. Today nobody doubts that they are Japanese. It's just like Hawaii belongs to America, so Hawaiians are Americans. Blood and where your ancestor comes from have nothing to do with that.

Taiwanese people have a serious identity crisis.

台灣到底是美國的??還是日本的???
http://tw.knowledge.yahoo.com/questi...=1305092114473
This Taiwanese person is asking whether Taiwan belongs to Japan or America

[godppgo]

In a sense, yes, but colonization implies oppression. If they totally identify with the country, then it's not colonization at all.
Former President Li Denghui says he was Japanese up to the age of 20. But from the today's point of view, he was a Taiwanese under Japanese rule.
It's all a matter of identy, a sense of where they belong. Okinawa belongs to Japan, so the people from Okinawa are Japanese. Today nobody doubts that they are Japanese. It's just like Hawaii belongs to America, so Hawaiians are Americans. Blood and where your ancestor comes from have nothing to do with that.
Taiwanese people have a serious identity crisis.
台灣到底是美國的??還是日本的???
http://tw.knowledge.yahoo.com/questi...=1305092114473
This Taiwanese person is asking whether Taiwan belongs to Japan or America

For a Japanese, you know alot about Taiwan strait issue. Not to mention your ability to read Chinese. I am amazed.

I think Minty's link pointed out the current state of Taiwan quite well. The fact is, most Taiwanese do not know and DO NOT CARE who they are. Generations of colonization by the Japanese/Chinese have made Taiwanese lost the courage to identify themselves and even feel ashame of the name Taiwanese. Their mind are filled with sinocentrism crap from a young age.

[osias]

For a Japanese, you know alot about Taiwan strait issue. Not to mention your ability to read Chinese. I am amazed.

Thanks. Well, I picked up the language, but not really sure if it was the right choice. I mean, Japan has been investing in China, but now Japanese factories are moving away to other developing countries. After all these anti-Japanese movements, now Japan is aware of the risks involved in the investments in China. China is like 財大氣粗, so a bit dangerous..Where is 禮儀之邦?
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_risk
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%...82%B9%E3%82%AF

I think Minty's link pointed out the current state of Taiwan quite well. The fact is, most Taiwanese do not know and DO NOT CARE who they are. Generations of colonization by the Japanese/Chinese have made Taiwanese lost the courage to identify themselves and even feel ashame of the name Taiwanese. Their mind are filled with sinocentrism crap from a young age.

The link was interesting. Most people want the status quo. Why bother, when it is practically doing quite ok as an independent sovereinty anyways?

[gs001]

For a Japanese, you know alot about Taiwan strait issue. Not to mention your ability to read Chinese. I am amazed.

the thoughtway of osias is not Japanese style,
I guess he is not a Japanese, at least not japanese in race, Maybe he is a Okinawa--Japanese
or Taiwan-Japanese, just like you

[godppgo]

the thoughtway of osias is not Japanese style,
I guess he is not a Japanese, at least not japanese in race, Maybe he is a Okinawa--Japanese
or Taiwan-Japanese, just like you

I sworn my allegiance to the Queen of England not the Emperor of Japan.

[osias]

the thoughtway of osias is not Japanese style,
I guess he is not a Japanese, at least not japanese in race, Maybe he is a Okinawa--Japanese
or Taiwan-Japanese, just like you

What's the typical Japanese thinking style?
The fact is I'm Japanese but brought up abroad in several different countries. I'm not sure how my thinking is different from other Japanese, but no wonder I'm not very much like Japanese, even though I'm Japanese. The thinking has nothing to do with the race, but the environment is a bigger factor. 我是土生外長的日本人。I'm a cosmopolitan...!!!

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

What's the typical Japanese thinking style?
The fact is I'm Japanese but brought up abroad in several different countries. I'm not sure how my thinking is different from other Japanese, but no wonder I'm not very much like Japanese, even though I'm Japanese. The thinking has nothing to do with the race, but the environment is a bigger factor. 我是土生外長的日本人。I'm a cosmopolitan...!!!


You are so right OSIAS! I grew up in Indonesia, I was 19 years old when I arrived in Holland, I have often noticed (just for myself) that I react slightly different from many Dutch people, and so do my friends who grew up in Indonesia. So it must be the environnement that is the most important factor.
Me too I am cosmopolitan, lived in several different countries and one always learns when one lives outside the "home country".

[Minty]

the thoughtway of osias is not Japanese style,
I guess he is not a Japanese, at least not japanese in race, Maybe he is a Okinawa--Japanese
or Taiwan-Japanese, just like you

Okinawa people are part of the Japanese race. There is more than one ethnicity in Japan.

Just because godppgo likes Japanese and dislike communist doesn't make him a “Taiwan Japanese.” He looks more like a nationalist of Taiwan to me. Just remember Japan's influence of Taiwan is part of the Taiwanese identity today, but the ones who are nationalists tend to "side with Japanese more."
Just like the influence of British on Singaporean but I wouldn't call Singaporean “Singapore British” just because of that.

In Singapore I notice there are Sino Singaporeans who are interested in their Chinese origins and they have better Chinese knowledge and they support Chinese (not blindly of course) but there also exists the ones who are very, very westernized and side almost everything with the west. Those kinds don't even know who Zu Geliang is they think it's some kind of chocolate!: blush:

You are so right OSIAS! I grew up in Indonesia, I was 19 years old when I arrived in Holland, I have often noticed (just for myself) that I react slightly different from many Dutch people, and so do my friends who grew up in Indonesia. So it must be the environnement that is the most important factor.
Me too I am cosmopolitan, lived in several different countries and one always learns when one lives outside the "home country".

Yeah, I am also very different from other Malaysian Chinese, because my mother is from Taiwan. As I am brought up in Australia, when I meet overseas Chinese students I feel quite different from them. Many Indonesian or Malaysian (Chinese or not) have expectations that I should be able to speak Bahasa Malaysia but I can’t. The ones from China, even they speak the same language as me but they have very different accents and are quite far from my ideology and standards, except the ones who are more open minded. The Hongkese are also very different from me and they expect I am able to speak Cantonese just because they have met Sino Malaysians who can. Supervin and Dreamer are a few whom I have spoken to that actually don't make that assumption and they are both from the net!

The closest ones to me are the Taiwanese or Malaysian Chinese or Singaporean Chinese who have lived in Western country for a long enough time and they share similar interests with me. But I can be friends with others too as long as there are enough common grounds in attitudes and beliefs.

[osias]

Taiwanese people's likes and dislikes for Japan seem a bit complicated to me.

[strongvoicesforward]

Originally Posted by mingo
Depends on what do you mean by colonization, I guess the rest of the china is colonized by chinese too and korea is colonized by korean, japan is colonized by japanese

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

lol. That is how people try to obfuscate.

It`s like when American Indians say they are Native Americans and then some wise crack reductionist will say, "No, your ancestors immigrated here from across the Berring Straits. Reductionists seem to shut up when you identify them. But they are amongst us and their argument often boils down to, "why bother" -- as everything is futile. Why care about a dog or a whale if you don`t go out of your way to care about the micro clustering sponge organisms?

I guess we are all just "primordal soupians," huh? for all you reductionists out there.

[godppgo]

lol. That is how people try to obfuscate.
It`s like when American Indians say they are Native Americans and then some wise crack reductionist will say, "No, your ancestors immigrated here from across the Berring Straits. Reductionists seem to shut up when you identify them. But they are amongst us and their argument often boils down to, "why bother" -- as everything is futile. Why care about a dog or a whale if you don`t go out of your way to care about the micro clustering sponge organisms?
I guess we are all just "primordal soupians," huh? for all you reductionists out there.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Some reductionist will tell you that we're all human why make distinction. The fact is, we're not the same and it is okay and necessary to make distinction if we want to understand each other better. I know some of them are just trying to be political correct but I think the world we live in have too much political correct-ness.

[godppgo]

Taiwanese people's likes and dislikes for Japan seem a bit complicated to me.

This cannot be explained in a sentence or two. To understand Taiwanese attitude towards Japan, one has to understand Taiwanese history during Japan colonization(and no, not the ROC version).

Summer's coming and that means I'll have more time to waste. I am planning on opening a thread to provide people on this forum a different perspective on Japanese colonization during WWII using Taiwan as a case study. So, stay tune!

[osias]

This cannot be explained in a sentence or two. To understand Taiwanese attitude towards Japan, one has to understand Taiwanese history during Japan colonization(and no, not the ROC version).
Summer's coming and that means I'll have more time to waste. I am planning on opening a thread to provide people on this forum a different perspective on Japanese colonization during WWII using Taiwan as a case study. So, stay tune!

OK, I'm waiting..

[warakawa]

taiwan population was estimated in 2005 as being 22.9 million, most of which are on Taiwan. About 98% of the population is of Han Chinese ethnicity