What do you dislike about Japan ?

**Maciamo** · Oct 22, 2006, 21:52

This is not the first thread on the subject (in fact, most thread in the "culture Shock" section are related), but I want to make a poll about it.

Here are a few backgrounders if you are new on the forum :

Common Japanese misconceptions regarding foreigners and foreign countries

Japanese attitude to health and environmental issues

Dogs and Demons : the fall of modern Japan

Quality of life in Japan compared to other developed countries

Foreign criminality in Japan

Discrimination in Japan

Sino-Japanese relations

**nice gaijin** · Oct 22, 2006, 23:05

Just an observation, since you selected every item on the poll... is this thread meant to see who shares your complaints about Japan?

As for myself, my only complaint of late would be the schitzophrenic weather. I haven't been here long enough to experience or notice many of the things you have listed, or encounter the attitudes you take issue with.

**Bucko** · Oct 22, 2006, 23:32

I can't understand this from the 'Common Misconceptions' link:

"but probably 1/3 of those are not native speakers of English, as English-speaking countries are predominantly immigration countries. So only about 30% of all Westerners are in fact native English speakers. The European Union alone has 20 official languages, and dozens more non-officials ones and dialects."

Care to state your source? I'm from one of those "immigration" countries and I'd say it was quite rare to meet someone whose mother-tongue wasn't English. For your information, I've taken the following from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...untry_of_Birth

76.9% Australian born, 23.1% foreign born.
The most commonly declared foreign countries of birth amongst respondents were:
United Kingdom : 1,036,253 (5.8%)
New Zealand : 355,765 (2.0%)

So all the Australian born people are naturally native English speakers. Plus all the New Zealand and UK people. That amounts to over 82%. So it might be fare to say that around 18% of all foreign-born Australians come from non-English speaking countries. Dare I say countries like America, New Zealand and Canada might be the same.

**Bucko** · Oct 22, 2006, 23:51

The complete randomness of city design in Japan baffles me. But I guess I'm use to towns having some structure and design to them, like with a proper city centre, and allocated alotments for certain building types. On my way to Kyoto from Osaka the other day I was looking out the window of a train, into the country side, and in the distance I could see a huge office tower, or residential tower or something, basically in the middle of nowhere. It looked awful. However, as a non-Japanese, who am I to judge the way their cities look? What I can judge however, is the destruction and "taming" of all nature. That type of of recklessness affects all humanity. It really makes me sad when I see a river with a big concrete wall on either side.

The whole "all westerners speak English" thing, while completely irritating, is completely understandable. Although outside Japan there are millions of white people who don't speak English, in Japan I reckon that 98% of whites would be able to. My whole time here I've met one westerner who couldn't speak English. She was Italian. I've met quite a few French, a few Indians, and other people from around the world, and they all speak English to some degree. Even Maciamo speaks English, and can write it fluently. So, yeah, in Japan, if you're white, you speak English.

**Bucko** · Oct 23, 2006, 00:03

About police checks, I've been asked for ID four times, however, coincidently, twice was one day, and twice was on another. Here's a breakdown, judge for yourself if it looked discriminatory:

First time: I was lost in a neighbourhood so approached two police officers asking which way a certain district was. They saw that my bike didn't have a lock and, after helping me with a map, asked for ID and registration details.

Second time (same day as first): Five minutes after the first time I cycle around a bend, and am them pulled over by two police and asked for my details.

Third time: My (white) girlfriend and I were riding into town. We stop at some lights where a policeman happened to be standing. I get asked for ID and registration details because of my bike having no lock. My girlfriend doesn't get asked.

Fourth time (same night as third): I'm riding home, a little bit drunk, maybe going a little bit fast. Two police officers pull me over and ask for ID, then do a full check, asking where I work, how long I've been in Japan etc, writing it all down. They said I was riding my bike recklessly and to take care on my way home. On my way home I see police EVERYWHERE stopping cars and doing checks. It was quite bizzare.

**Bucko** · Oct 23, 2006, 00:12

Regarding foreign crime, I remember one funny English conversation class that I had where there was a police officer present. Nice guy, had some great stories. One student asked him if he has to deal with a lot of foreign crime, specifically, Chinese crime. The police officer shocked everyone by saying it was like next to nothing.

That guy had some great stories about the seedy side of Osaka, especially around the minami area (Shin Sekai, Tennoji, Nishinari) near where I live. I hope I get to meet him again.

**Maciamo** · Oct 23, 2006, 02:11

Originally Posted by nice gaijin

Just an observation, since you selected every item on the poll... is this thread meant to see who shares your complaints about Japan?

Yes, but also to see if other people have other complaints about Japan, which they can express in this thread.

**Maciamo** · Oct 23, 2006, 02:25

Originally Posted by Bucko

"but probably 1/3 of those are not native speakers of English, as English-speaking countries are predominantly immigration countries. So only about 30% of all Westerners are in fact native English speakers. The European Union alone has 20 official languages, and dozens more non-officials ones and dialects."
Care to state your source? I'm from one of those "immigration" countries and I'd say it was quite rare to meet someone whose mother-tongue wasn't English. For your information, I've taken the following from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...untry_of_Birth
76.9% Australian born, 23.1% foreign born.
The most commonly declared foreign countries of birth amongst respondents were:
United Kingdom : 1,036,253 (5.8%)
New Zealand : 355,765 (2.0%)
So all the Australian born people are naturally native English speakers. Plus all the New Zealand and UK people. That amounts to over 82%. So it might be fare to say that around 18% of all foreign-born Australians come from non-English speaking countries. Dare I say countries like America, New Zealand and Canada might be the same.

Australia and New Zealand have a combined population of 22 million, i.e. less than Belgium and the Netherlands combined (27 million). All Europe (including Russai) has a population of 710 million, of which only about 55 million are native English speakers (the UK+ Ireland 's population is 64 million, but let us not forget that many Irish, Welsh and Scots speak Gaelic or Scots as their mother tongue + the immigrants). According to Wikipedia and the US government stats, only 215 million out of the 300 million inhabitants of the USA are native English speakers. So even if 100% of Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders were native English speakers (which is far from true), the Western world would count about 320 native English speakers out of 1,060 million people, i.e. about 30% - and it is a generous estimation.

**kooo** · Oct 23, 2006, 04:59

My only complaint about Japan is the humidity.

**Bucko** · Oct 23, 2006, 11:01

Originally Posted by Maciamo

Australia and New Zealand have a combined population of 22 million, i.e. less than Belgium and the Netherlands combined (27 million). All Europe (including Russai) has a population of 710 million, of which only about 55 million are native English speakers (the UK+ Ireland 's population is 64 million, but let us not forget that many Irish, Welsh and Scots speak Gaelic or Scots as their mother tongue + the immigrants). According to Wikipedia and the US government stats, only 215 million out of the 300 million inhabitants of the USA are native English speakers. So even if 100% of Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders were native English speakers (which is far from true), the Western world would count about 320 native English speakers out of 1,060 million people, i.e. about 30% - and it is a generous estimation.

I think you misunderstood me. This is the part I had a problem with - "400 million live in English-speaking countries - but probably 1/3 of those are not native speakers of English, as English-speaking countries are predominantly".

So you're saying that 33.33% of people living in America, New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, Ireland, and Canada are not native English speakers? I've already proved that perhaps only 18% of Australians are non-native English speakers (almost half your figure).

**Dutch Baka** · Oct 23, 2006, 16:09

pff I am getting annoyed by a lot of foreigners who keep complaining about certain things...

I disagree with certain things here on the poll, because how many people in here had a police check because they were a foreigner? plus the discrimination thing ( discrimination happens everywhere in the world, not only in Japan... I don't think that there is THAT much discr. in Japan .... or maybe I just care less than a lot of others)

But okay, one of the things that I don't like is the WAY TO SEXUAL commercial on tv ( what is not good for kids, and for the female in the Japan)

**nice gaijin** · Oct 23, 2006, 18:18

Maybe I'm not staying up late enough, but television has been extremely tame in comparison to what I'm used to watching back home. Unless someone can recommend a good station to tune in to...

As for discrimination, I was biking with a friend a few weeks ago and he was coasting with his feet up off the pedals while I swerved around trying to take a photo behind my back. Just then, a cop pulled us over, and completely ignored me while grilling my friend (who is asian and is commonly mistaken for Japanese) about his bike registration and asking to see his ID, before warning us about riding in such an unsafe manner (referring to my friend). Other than that, the omawari-san have been nothing but helpful to me.

**Iron Chef** · Oct 23, 2006, 19:14

I voted for "Ignorance about the rest of the world (cultures, geography, history...)" because it's amazing to me to hear what some of my students say when I ask them about such things (and i'm not talking about an isolated few or just the younger generation).

**Maciamo** · Oct 23, 2006, 19:22

Originally Posted by Bucko

I think you misunderstood me. This is the part I had a problem with - "400 million live in English-speaking countries - but probably 1/3 of those are not native speakers of English, as English-speaking countries are predominantly".
So you're saying that 33.33% of people living in America, New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, Ireland, and Canada are not native English speakers? I've already proved that perhaps only 18% of Australians are non-native English speakers (almost half your figure).

Yes, but the USA alone, by far the most populous English-speaking country, has 85 million non-native English speakers (29% of the population). In Canada, only 17 of the 30 million inhabitants have English as their first language, so 43% are non-native English speakers.

About 10% of people in the UK are non-native speakers of English, which is probably the lowest proportion of non-native of any English-speaking country.

If we add South Africa or Singapore, which are predominantly English-speaking countries (main language of government and education), the proportion of native speakers is actually quite small (maybe less than 10% of native English speakers). So it all depends what we include in "English-speaking countries".

For the USA, Canada, the UK, New Zealand and Australia alone, there are about 107 million non native speakers of English for a total population of about 410 million. That is just 26%. You are right, that is not 1/3, but that was a rough estimation without calculating (just gut-feeling). I wasn't so far from the truth though... In North America (USA + Canada) the proportion is 30%. If you count the number of second-generation immigrant whose parents are non-native speakers, but who consider English as their mother-tongue despite speaking with many mistakes (learnt from their parents), I think we are well over 33%.

**Bucko** · Oct 23, 2006, 20:13

Fair enough, I'll give you your 1/3.

Not sure about your last comment though. I've never met a second generation immigrant whose English has suffered as a result of their parents'. My girlfriend's father is Dutch, and her English is perfect. So is his, I might add. And I've met a lot of Chinese Australians/Canadians in Japan who speak English 100% naturally. Some 2nd generation Australians have slight accents though, notibly the Greek community, but the only mistakes they'd make in their speech would be natural mistakes that all speakers make.

**Maciamo** · Oct 23, 2006, 22:31

Originally Posted by Bucko

Not sure about your last comment though. I've never met a second generation immigrant whose English has suffered as a result of their parents'. My girlfriend's father is Dutch, and her English is perfect.

That's quite natural ! Most Dutch people born and raised in the Netherlands speak English very well, some almost like native speakers, without having lived in an English speaking country. Dutch is the closest language to Old and Middle English, that explains a lot !

And I've met a lot of Chinese Australians/Canadians in Japan who speak English 100% naturally. Some 2nd generation Australians have slight accents though, notibly the Greek community, but the only mistakes they'd make in their speech would be natural mistakes that all speakers make.

Just on this forum I have noticed a lot of US-born Americans who do not master English very well - less well than many Northern Europeans who have English as their 2nd or 3rd language.

**Maciamo** · Oct 23, 2006, 22:43

Back to the topic, there are other things that I dislike or that bother me about Japan, but many are too personal to be mentioned, or linked to my own experience only. There are also things that I dislike because of my personality or sensibility, and which I understand that not all normal people might dislike (many don't even notice). For instance, I dislike the fact that Japanese language uses so many words from English even when words in Japanese exist to express the same thing (e.g. ドア vs 扉). I also dislike Japanese humour, and dislike the way they go "oooohh" and "eeeehh" on TV or elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Dutch Baka

pff I am getting annoyed by a lot of foreigners who keep complaining about certain things...

Then don't read the complaints. My opinion is that one must have a honest and truthful view of things in life, which includes a balanced view of the good and the bad. I dislike people who are blinded by their passion and only see everything in pink (the Japan lovers) or in black (the Japan haters). I see myself as balanced, and I feel that the more good is written on this forum about Japan, the more bad has to be written to counter-balance, and vice versa.

This thread was originally intended as a balance to the polls Greatest Japanese contributions to the world and What are your interests for Japan ?, which I also started.

**Bucko** · Oct 23, 2006, 23:01

The amount of words that come from English baffles me. Words like "chenji" instead of 変える and "durinku" instead of 飲み物 I find simply rediculous. I sometimes wonder if there's some sort of deep-seeded cultural reason for using words like these. OR...maybe the only reason they look so out of place is because they're written in katakana, whereas in English a lot of foreign words are hidden.

**Mrjones** · Oct 23, 2006, 23:14

I think Japanese people just want to show, their knowledge in English in everyway possible.

**Maciamo** · Oct 24, 2006, 03:07

Originally Posted by Mrjones

I think Japanese people just want to show, their knowledge in English in everyway possible.

So that would be a tactful outlet to individual pride in a society where modesty and self-depreciation are some of the most revered values. Interesting theory. I like that.

**DoctorP** · Oct 25, 2006, 00:14

Honestly the only two things that I dislike about Japan are:

1. The way the news is presented on TV. If I wanted to read the newspaper, then I would just buy the damn newspaper!

2. People who continually complain about how Japan is not like their home country. If you wanted to be in your home country, why did you leave and come to Japan?

**Sukotto** · Oct 25, 2006, 00:31

Originally Posted by Bucko

The complete randomness of city design in Japan baffles me. But I guess I'm use to towns having some structure and design to them, like with a proper city centre, and allocated alotments for certain building types. On my way to Kyoto from Osaka the other day I was looking out the window of a train, into the country side, and in the distance I could see a huge office tower, or residential tower or something, basically in the middle of nowhere. It looked awful.

I actually absolutely love this about Japan. It makes going places an adventure. My experience is based on Nagasaki, Fukuoka, and like 2 days in Hiroshima, Kyoto, and Shinjuku (Tokyo) each. Shinjuku around the station was by far the most confusing. Of course, I was only visiting and didn't have to live & work there...

It actually seems much more organic the way it seems to have just developed over time.

As to the rest of the questionare, I really don't have enough experience to comment.

**Bucko** · Oct 25, 2006, 00:49

Originally Posted by Sukotto

It actually seems much more organic the way it seems to have just developed over time.

Hmm...interesting choice of words. Definately puts it all into a new light for me now. Thanks

**Spyder93090** · Oct 25, 2006, 07:38

Pretty much only their humid Summers and their (lack of) Dental Hygiene. Their girls would be hotter with tans but not a big deal.

**ricecake** · Oct 25, 2006, 08:40

Originally Posted by Spyder93090

Pretty much only their humid Summers and their (lack of) Dental Hygiene.

Hmmm .... I've read and heard some ( truth and half-truth ) little unpleasant comments to baseless anti-Japanese crap about them,lack of dental hygiene is the first for me.Can you elaborate further,isn't " cleanliness " a deep-rooted cultural trait ?